[Graeme Dice]

Gandalf Parker said:
Exactly. That IS what I think. Dont forget that I play it solo and I love randoms. So as far as Im concerned less strategy in facvor of more randoms is not a threat.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with playing a game to win. If playing to win means that people use "unthematic" or "cheesy" tactics, then the problem is that the thematic and "non-cheesy" strategic elements aren't powerful enough. I also don't know why you feel that your games against the unintelligent AI would be threatened by the availability of a powerful learning tool to multiplayer players.

But as far as MP gaming, Ive seen games destroyed where every little thing could be so completely tested that a slight benefit amounted to defining the ultimate absolute winning strategy. There was no more reason to buy it, play it, discuss it. Or it turned into a continual give and take between player-testers and developers that it also wasnt worth really playing the game. As far as Im concerned that would suck and it would be stupid to give that ability to the players.

I'm glad that you feel that chess is a worthless strategy game thanks to its complete lack of randomness.

Personally, I'd also like to see some concrete examples of games that you think were ruined by such balancing.

Or it turned into a continual give and take between player-testers and developers that it also wasnt worth really playing the game. As far as Im concerned that would suck and it would be stupid to give that ability to the players.

It's _stupid_ to let players make meaningful decisions in a strategy game? If we follow that line of thought to its logical conclusion, it's clear that we must remove all decisions from the game. Everything shoud simply be a collection of random statistics where it's impossible to figure out any relationship between them. After all, it's stupid to let the players figure things out in the game.

Yes, keep them in the dark and make them PLAY the game to find their strategys.

I don't know why you feel that it's necessary to insult every player that wants more strategic decisions in their strategy game. I'd like to learn by playing the game. I'd even more like for new players to be able to learn by playing the game. Simulating battles is part of playing the game. It's merely one way of taking one of the most important parts of the game and working on learning that part without the distractions from the other parts of the game. Would you tell somebody who repeatedly practices a single measure of a difficult song to perfect it that they aren't playing properly? I'd hope not, because they are doing exactly what is needed to learn as effectively as possible.

Such a flat factual statement? Maybe you meant to say that in your opinion that was..

Some statements are simply correct or incorrect. There is no question of opinion when somebody makes a statement of fact.

No, I posted a link to a Battle Simulator.

I don't see any program that you posted, and I'm not sure why you want to argue the semantics of what the term "battle simulator" means. You provided a link to a map file that can only be used to get an extremely rough approximation of the capabilities of a true simulator. There are dozens of critical variables that can't be controlled on that map that effect battles. You can't control who has dominion in the province, whether there's a magic or drain scale, the heat scale, what spells are available to the nations, what globals are in effect and how strong they are in the particular province, what afflictions the units have, etc.

You might like something fancier like some other games have but I see little benefit in having the devs work on one. Especially since the link I gave allows for well over 90% of whatever tests anyone wants to do and what little is left over Id doubt would show up in any other simulator.

I want to test 1000 (or 2000, or 100,000) gold worth of every national infantry unit against every other national infantry unit in enough battles to produce statistically significant results. Such results would be extremely useful in providing players with concrete information about the actual capabilities of the units that they have available to them.

Now, I'm not sure why you think that your opinion of what the devs work on should rule the day, while those people who disagree with you have opinions don't matter. After all, you're the one who constantly tells us all that every opinion is equally valid.