[Edi]

NTJedi said:
It's broken if you're doing a MP only game which MUST include Vanheim. Two easy fixes available... one is not play with Vanheim leaving at least 18 other nations per era available for gaming!! Second if you truly love Vanheim and must choose the nation in a MP game then the host can create a mod.

That's completely sidestepping the entire point and you know it. If the only way to avoid a problem is to voluntarily cut a whole nation out of the game, then that nation might as well not be included in the game at all and the bleating about a host being able to make a mod is a red herring. If mods are to be the answer, then they should be the method used by those who want an excessively powerful nation in SP. The reason for that is that it is much easier for one person to use a mod in a SP game than it is to coordinate mod version compatibility with up to 17 people in MP.

NTJedi said:
And I'll point out the Conceptual Balance mod dealt with multiple issues... the issue under discussion is one nation.

Irrelevant.

NTJedi said:
I could understand if the game had only 11 nations or less to play, but that's not the case. I see no reason why SP gamers, MP gamers with AI opponents and MP only gamers should have a very powerful nation NERF wacked when there's easy ways for gamers to address the issue.

The easiest way to address the issue is for the SP game people to use the mod instead of forcing everyone else to do it. What part of this is too hard to understand? It is also easier to do a powerup mod for a nation than it is to do a balance mod, which is another reason for nerfing Helheim and Vanheim to a level of tolerably superior strength and let the SP gamers powerup them by mod.

NTJedi said:
I never said the whole game was perfect. Some imbalances I noticed are the Umbrals that Argatha can summon for 2 death, yet there's no need for me to demand a change because I know a simple mod can make this adjustment.

And is this issue something that will allow them to easily dominate any given game they are included in? Or is it something that will shore up a weak spot but does not give them an overwhelming edge? I've not seen that many topics complaining about Umbrals, while there is a lot of discussion of Vanheim and Helheim.

NTJedi said: I could see a patch addressing an imbalance in a spell available to everyone, such as if summoning wraith lords was only 8 death gems. This would be an imbalance affecting all nations, yet this is one OPTIONAL nation and not an issue unless the host makes it available choosing not to mod the nation.

So your preferred solution is to restrict content that would otherwise be available and perfectly acceptable if it were only tweaked downward a tiny bit? Gotcha. The remedy you propose is very much voluntarily cutting off your hand because it became dirty, instead of just washing it.

Edi