[Edi]

Atrocities said:
I wish it were crap Edi, I really do, but more and more people are beginning to buy into the liberals media controlled onslaught of propaganda and are showing inherent and somewhat alarming signs of conforming to the views and political agenda's of the elite far left liberal doctrine.

This claim about the US media being controlled by liberals is a flat out lie. It cannot be formulated any more charitably than that. If the media really were as liberal as conservative scaremongers portray it, they would have dragged the Bush administration and the Republican party over the coals for dozens of scandals and the whole runup to the Iraq war, but what we have seen instead is practical media fellation of conservative and neoconservative viewpoints. It might look "left-wing" from where you are, but from anywhere else, the American media is in the far right wingnut looney-land.

Atrocities said:
To be honest I have never seen any religious right wing conservative try to force their beliefs down my throat.

You personally, or in general? Because they tend to do iyt via legislation. Know what they have been up to in some of the midwest states? Those gay marriage bans they rammed through the legislation? They've been using those as a legal springboard to sue companies and government to prevent any kind of benefits being given to heterosexual couples who are not married, though cohabiting couples (I think the term is called common law marriage or some such) have been able to claim them before. Now, they use the argument that unless there is actual, official marriage, nothing can be given. That's ramming their values down people's throats, plain and simple.

How about Focus on Family and other religious right groups trying to get abortion banned? That's ramming their values down everyone else's throats too. Same thing with the morons who in Alabama voted to keep interracial marriages illegal a couple of years ago. There 40% support for keeping it illegal, fortunately not enough for the racist idiots. Or what about the religious right wing people who want to enforce dead-letter laws against homosexual sex so that gays can be thrown in prison for consensual sex? That isn't forcing their values down anyone's throat? I can keep these examples up all day unless you care to actually provide evidence for your claims.

Atrocities said:
However I have bared witness to liberals throwing break fluid on SUV's, stringing up razor think fishing wire on dirt bike trails,

So, all liberals are criminals, eh? So all right wingers and conservatives must then be abortion clinic bombers or Timothy McVeigh sympathizers? Sounds like we can have a deal on swapping labels then. You want to tag all liberals with the extremist brush, I have no problem returning the favor tenfold, Atrocities. The activities above are criminal, pure and simple. Vandalism and intent to cause injury, so throw the book at them and good riddance. That is most definitely not typical liberal behavior.

Atrocities said:
aggressive anti-war protests,

What do you mean by aggressive anti-war protests? Protests that got out of control or just people being vocal and possibly heckling counter-protesters? Because I've also seen news reports about pro-war counter-protesters getting violent.

Atrocities said:
and personally have been verbally attacked by liberals for not agreeing with how they see the world.

Do you consider this debate a verbal attack? If you do not agree with someone's world view and cannot offer up actual reasoning to back up your disagreement, you most definitely are not immune from criticism. I have no problem verbally attacking people whose worldview I disagree with if I have an actual reason for doing so. Which means that I let e.g. racists, xenophobes, misogynists, bullies and jingoists have it with a full broadside and if they get upset over that, I'll tell them to go screw themselves. If they want to piss and moan about it, they can then bloody well come up with actual logical reasoning to back up their bull**** or they can shut up.

Atrocities said:
I was "let go" from my position with the City because I wasn't a Democrat and didn't "accept" my supervisors very liberal point of view of how things should be. (I made the mistake of saying I voted for Bush Sr. in 92 back in may of 93 and was removed from the schedule and told that I no longer fit in. WTF!)

That's a different thing. It's baseless dismissal and abuse, and if it had happened here, you could sue them and they would leave court with their backside very sore. Sadly, I've heard this kind of news from the US several times, though most of them have been the opposite, e.g. people being fired because they had a Kerry campaign sticker on their car when their boss was a Republican. Neither instance is justified if the person does his job and does not cause disruption in the workplace.

Atrocities said:
So you see I do have first hand knowledge of how liberals operate. If you don't agree with them, they do their best to marginalize, harass, intimidate, and pressure you to conform to their will, if you don't, they embarrass you, ridicule you, and ultimately resort to just doing just about anything they can to quiet you.

Take a look at how your country has been run the past 6½ years and see if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. There are ****wits on the left too, always have been, just they have always existed on the right, but what I have seen you do here is take a sampling of the extremists of the left wing and people who have abused their position to fire you and you have then painted everyone non-conservative with the same brush. That's called a hasty generalization fallacy. I've pointed out why those hasty generalizations are not accurate and you can provide evidence to the contrary if you wish.

Atrocities said:
(Much like what you are attempting to do Edi. )

Calling those hasty generalizations delusional is accurate if you're trying to apply them to everyone liberal. IF you only want to talk about the extremists and arseholes who are willing to commit crimes and vandalism, you're on target. They're a vanishingly small fringe, actually.

Atrocities said:
In 20 years I haven't seen very many conservatives pull these kind of tactics. And those who have, often see it blow back in their faces.

Perhaps, but in recent years it has become common practice for the right wing to use all kinds of smear tactics against liberals, harass, belittle etc and there has been no blowback at all. Fox "News" and it's "fair and balanced" approach is nothing but a right wing propaganda channel and can get away with all of that behavior with no backlash at all, and the Republican party has been doing it on an unprecedented scale for the whole Bush term.

Atrocities said:
And for the record, we are not a washed out drunk beating our chest about how bad *** we are, we are in fact a nation that has saved Europe first from the Nazi's and secondly from Stalins Russia.

Ah, the old staple argument about how us Europeans should be grateful to the US.

You should take a good look at your history books before attempting to use that on a Finn. You did not save us from anything in WW2. In fact, you helped our enemies all through the war by providing material support that allowed them to be more effective and it was the Germans who helped save us from suffering the fate of the Balts and being annexed to Russia. Yeah, they sold us out in 1939 with the Molotov-Ribbentrop deal, but they helped us out in 1941 and onward and some Luftwaffe units were pretty instrumental in helping the Finnish army slow the Russian advance through the Karelian Isthmus, which eventually forced Stalin to the negotiating table to make peace so he could be the first to rush to Berlin. No thanks to the US at all.

There is no condoning what Nazi Germany did, the Holocaust and the other brutalities, but at the end of the day it was Nazi Germany that helped keep my country free, not the Allies, and that fact of history must be acknowledged.

Atrocities said:
If you want to call us a spoiled rotten 15 year waving a gun in everyones face or a drunk beating his chest, please keep in mind that you all would be speaking German or Russian right now if it weren't for us dumb yanks and our bad bass ways.

See above.

Atrocities said:
As to our social problems, well they can pretty much be summed up in one word; Television.

When you rely on TV to teach your children morals and ethics, you reap what you sow.

That is not exactly the fault of the TV, but the fault of the parents who think that the TV can raise the child for them. Such parents are lazy and irresponsible. It is a parent's job to raise a child and there is no abrogating that responsibility.