[dogscoff]

Randallw said:
I recall they had just left the ringworld that was blown up and Horza killed the captain and replaced him. The culture agent told the crew who he was. It had promise. I liked the ringworld, and the spaceship combat stuff, but I can't stand the stance it takes.

Fair enough. bear in mind though that your view of the Culture in that book is coloured by Horza's outlook. When you read the others you see it from a different point of view. It's supposed to be different to the society we live in though, and it's supposed to be challenging.

I wanted the Religious aliens to win.

Who says they don't?

Normally I would never support aliens over humans but the humans in the book aren't human, they're slaves to machines

No, not slaves at all. The Minds and drones don't need slaves, they could exist perfectly happily without any humans at all. In fact, you could argue that their existence would be considerably easier without. No, they keep humans around and make life (very) comfortable because they like them. Minds are whimsical like that, and that's what's so appealing about them. They are very much like the old Greek/Roman Gods: Insanely powerful, but obsessed with watching/ tinkering in human affairs. Maybe that makes the humans in the Culture more like pets than slaves (and this is explicitly said in at least one of the books- excession I think), but they do still have freedom- people leave the Culture all the time, and humans are definitely respected.

In fact you could argue that they're *more* human than us: Without the stresses and pressures of trying to scratch a living/ accumulate wealth/ stay alive etc, they have the free time and resources to devote to *being* human. The Culture would probably argue that we are slaves to our economy, and they would probably be right.

and I know a later book discovers Earth.

Actually that's in one of the first Cuture books: A short(ish) story in State of the Art. It's extremely funny. They are in orbit around 1970s Earth, sending down people in diguise to learn as much as possible about Earth society. The bit where one of them watches Star Wars and then asks the ship for a working lightsaber is brilliant.

The Culture destroying the ring world merely so the enemy don't get it reminds me of Soviet scorched earth policy.

Note that they evacuated it first.
An Orbital (not quite a Ringworld) is a massive structre, but not such a big deal to the Culture. I think their resources are so vast and their attitudes are such that the loss of material things doesn't bother them too much. They'll just build another one. Hell, I wouldn't put it past them to go back, scoop up every bit of matter from the original and put it back together from the same bits. Just because they can- Like I said, whimsical.

I saw one episode of Firefly that was mostly boring though I liked the alliance ship at the end. I merely couldn't get into "Cowboys in space". We were discussing Joss Wheedon after I overheard a friend call him a whore. I asked him why he was calling my 6th cousin a whore, and we got to talking. He pointed out Star Wars was cowboys in space but I said Han solo didn't wear a trench coat and use a revolver.

Firefly takes a little getting used to but once you're in, you'll love it. Note that it is the ONLY science-fiction anything that my wife actually likes (and she doesn't just like it, she loves it too=-). If it helps, ignore the "space" bit and concentrate on the cowboys bit. In fact, even that is irrelevant. JW's stuff is all about the characters. You could dump the crew of the Firefly or the cast of Buffy in just about any setting and it wouldn't matter, it would still work.

I really don't see any reason for anyone to call JW a whore- he makes good, entertaining TV that people like to watch, and he gets paid for it. What the hell is wrong with that?