Quote:
CharlesM said:
The figures came from research that ASL guru Bob McNamara did at Aberdeen PG - I think.
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As I understand it, the idea that the US had APDS (and HE?) for their 57mm AT-guns was included in some old ASL manual without any references to where it came from.
Then ca. 2002, Kurt Laughlin found a document at USAMHI giving some APDS expenditure figures, which seems to have been compiled in 1953. Still, the paper had no publication date, author, or publishing agency, so where the data originally came from is anybodys guess.
These are the figures found by Kurt:
Aug 44 - 7% (of 68,506 = 4800 rounds)
Nov 44 - 1% (of 43,024 = 430)
Jan 45 - 3% (of 84,233 = 2500)
Feb 45 - 2% (of 79,849 = 1600)
Mar 45 - 3% (of 75,331 = 2300)
Apr 45 - 3% (of 52,281 = 1600)
May 45 - 2% (of 9,349 = 190)
For all other months the table lists 0%
It is of course worth noticing, that the 13,000 rounds fired is only 3% of the 413,000 57mm rounds fired and that the number of APDS rounds available for each 57mm gun was 6 - for the entire campaign from June 1944 to May 1945 - and that included training.
But they were used in combat. If you look in the SAIC Anti-Armor Defense Data Study from 1990 (vol. III) (download from
http://stinet.dtic.mil/ ) on page 21, you can find the following:
The nature of the terrain and the fog which blanketed the area compelled LtCol Daniel to place his anti-tank assets well forward, in order to have sufficient visibility to support the foxhole lines. He set up three 57mm antitank
guns covering the road running east to Bullingen, and supported them with three M-1O self-propelled tank
destroyers mounting 3-inch guns. He sent three more AT guns to bolster the main line of resistance, or MLR, in the E and F Co areas. Each of the 57mm guns had, as part of its ammunition supply, seven to ten rounds of British discarding sabot (DS) ammunition, which the British had given to the regiment before D-Day.' 3 These rounds used a disposable sleeve, or sabot, around the penetrator for the British 2-pounder gun. The result was a lighter projectile with increased velocity, about 4200 ft/sec vice 2900 ft/sec
for the normal 57mi round. With this velocity, a DS round could penetrate approximately six inches (154mm) of armor at a 300 slope. 14 This made the obsolescent 57mm gun more effective, particularly against the heavy Panther tank
and Jagdpanther tank destroyer.
The source for the information is appears to be one Capt. Rivette who commanded an anti-tank company in the battle.
It is worth noticing, that they got the rounds before the invasion from the British, which might suggest, that a quantity was supplied to the US forces in the UK before June 1944 and that was all they ever got, unless they could swap some along the way.
Of course, APDS rounds may not have been evenly distributed, so if this issue of APDS to US units is to be applied to the game, it might be considered making one gun with a few rounds and one without.
The Germans did actually make some anti-tank APDS rounds, including one for the 15cm sFH but it was not the one presented on the on the site Chuck is referring to.
"Spr.Gr 42 TS" means "Sprenggranate 42 Treibspiegel" which translates to "High-explosive shell 42 discarding sabot" This was a high-explosive round with 4kg of explosive and a total weight of some 30kg, which apparently used the subcaliber design to increase range.
The real item was the "15cm PzGr. 39 TS" - "150mm anti-tank shell 39 discarding sabot". This appears to have used a standard 88mm PzGr 39 APCBC round supported in the 150mm barrel by a base and shoulder ring. Apparently a round of some 10kg with 60 grams of explosive. This type of projectile is described on page 266 in Hoggs book on German Artillery. It is highly unlikely that it was ever fielded, however.
cbo