[Edi]

If you have a problem with moderation decisions, you are supposed to take them to an administrator over PM. However, since this is here already, I will respond to it so that the reasoning behind the decision is there for everyone to see.

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

In Jim's defense, I read the poem and yes, it was very, very dark, but he was also just working with what was already in the game. When you're dealing with the subject matter that happens to be 13 year old blind virgin girls destined to be sacrificed to dark gods, how many directions do you have to go?

It's not like he posted a pedophiliac snuff film. It's just a poem, and it concerned things that are already a reality that we deal with every day: namely Blood Slaves.

There's one general direction but a few different paths. Yes, there is blood sacrifice and blood slaves in the game and I have never forgotten just what it would mean in absolute terms. But there are differences between ways of dealing with that in creative work. The Dominions 3 thematic texts have never made any pretense of sugarcoating it or downplaying what it means, but neither have they sung the praises of blood sacrifice.

The main problem with Jim's poem stems from the last line in combination with the first two. The first two are just fine and if the third one had been something else, such as "The Demon Gate opens", there'd have been no problem whatsoever with it. But with the line that was there, the whole context of the poem changed to something far worse.

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

And when there's something with that potential to be profoundly disturbing in a shared environment, such as a community forum, it's bound to force it's way out into the open, eventually. Trying to pretend that Blood Slaves represent anything other than what they clearly and descriptively *do* represent is just sticking our heads in the sand, and sweeping a problematic issue under the rug, just because we're not capable of dealing with it.

I have never pretended that blood sacrifice in Dominions is anything other than what it is and if you think I have, you can post quotes right now or shut up.

There is no way that piece is going to come back in its original form because to everyone who does not play Dominions it gives exactly the impression which led to its removal. Hell, for many of those who do play Dominions it gives the same impression nontheless, though we can recognize that it was not intended. Leaving it up on the forum gives or might give the wider outside world the impression that Shrapnel Games condones or approves that sort of thing. If anyone should link it and post it somewhere else, that's a PR disaster waiting to happen. Because of that, it has been preemptively dealt with.

Most of us are quite capable of dealing with a lot of dark and negative things, both in real life and in art, but that is quite irrelevant to the point I made above. Besides that, this forum has (or at least has had) users as young as 13 and therefore some judgment must be exercised even when posting art.

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

This is explicitely a thread for art, and while art may be difficult to interpret, especially when it's dark and shocking and negative, it's still the perogative of the one who's experiencing the art to interpret it.

This happens to be a private forum where it is the prerogative of the owner, Shrapnel Games, to determine what is and is not appropriate to post on their forums. I made the determination that Jim's poem should be reviewed and that pending review it would not be visible. I brought it up with the other mods and admins and so far I have heard no disagreement.

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Yes, people should expect to have a choice about what they're exposed to-this being a games forum-because the community and the companies involved have a certain amount of responsibility to advise others about the content they can expect, but doesn't mean that that's they way the real world works.

What's your point here? It's precisely the way the real world works that when companies take their responsibilities as well as their posted policies seriously, the potential problems of this nature are tackled promptly instead of waiting and hoping nothing negative happens. In the real world we may not always have a choice of not seeing things such as traffic accidents that leave human body parts strewn all over the road, but how is that relevant to the operation of this forum?

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

I don't think Jim meant any harm, either. I also don't think he *did* any harm. Yes, the words he used were very evocative-that's to his credit as a writer-and yes, what he evoked was dark and terrible and hard to imagine-or perhaps the problem is that it was too easily imagined? But you'll notice that he didn't use any of the censored words the forum blots out, and-no matter how good a writer he may be-he didn't force us to think evil thoughts-he just opened the door to them.

As I said, I do not think he did it on purpose and I don't think he meant any harm. It's quite easy when writing poetry to sometimes consider things line by line and then miss something that comes from a combination of lines that by themselves have nothing wrong in them. I think this is exactly what happened. Compare to what it would have been, had the last line been according to my example above. As far as opening doorways to evil, I've seen enough evil and read enough about evil seen by others that it's not like I'm acting like a corrupted innocent here. In this case, I consider it best that the piece in its original form not appear here because of the associations and doubts it may evoke.

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Censorship doesn't solve any problems, it just hides problems in dark corners, where they can grow bigger and worse, unnoticed.

What is being addressed with removing Jim's poem and what you think is being addressed with it seem from my perspective to be two entirely different things. If you have any complaints after reading this post, take them via PM to an administrator. Mindi and Annette are fairly active on the forum and they should answer your concerns promptly.