[Omnirizon]

Originally Posted by OmikronWarrior

When I spent time in France, a Morrocan encouraged me to visit his home country as it was "easiest part of the orient to go to." I think Europe in general has a much broader definition of "orient" then America in general.

As for the original post, I do not think you really thought your initial assumption through. Yes, TC is a human themed "oriental" nation. However, Pangea, R'Lyeh, and Atlantis are hardly human based or eastern.

R'lyeh and Atlantis are underwater nations, so I chose to not consider them because its hard to be underwater and human at the same time.

Pangaea crossed my mind, but they don't represent a historical nation like most other nations do, but rather a mythical heritage. Same thing for Argatha, Fomo, and TirNaOg; all these nations represent some culture's myths, while that actual culture is represented in human form in another nation. Jomon is able to represent Japan in human form, while Yomi represents their myths; and I understand that this makes my analysis in regards to japan a little shaky. But Jomon only stands in for Japan in the latest age, while they remain represented as devious and demonic in their other ages.


@HoneyBadger:
Postcolonial theory, which Orientalism is a part of, has a long tradition of obscurantism. Postcolonial theory is social theory related to the events of and following colonization. Obscurantism is using a writing style so difficult to read and rhetoric so twisted and thick that text becomes "obscure". This is sometimes done deliberately out of the belief that text must be written in non-conventional ways to avoid hegemonic sublimation. Sublimation is the rechanneling of energy. Hegemonic sublimation is the rechanneling of energy to serve the hegemony. In the context of rhetoric this simply means that rhetoric would only serve to perpetuate the dominant hegemony, even if it appeared transgressive on the surface. Postcolonial theory is in particular sensitive to this because the entire tradition of colonialism, from the actual colonization to decolonization to development, has been to sublimate the colonized to serve the colonizer. Even things like development and aid only serve to eradicate the colonized's culture, modes, and history and replace them with those of the hegemonic power.

OK. now that said. I don't think my writing isn't obscurantist. However postcolonial theory does have its own heritage of words and concepts that it takes for granted. I'll explain a bit...

Occident is the west, Europe and America
Orient is the non-west and non-tropic
"Tropics" is a whole other issue all together. This is sub-Saharan Africa, So. America, and the Pacific Islands.

as Omikron points out, the Orient is much more than the far east. It is North Africa, Middle East, Sinia Peninsula, India, South East Asia, and Far East Asia. This is the Orient because these were the areas of the world that had goods which interested Europe or that they had to travel through to get to those areas of the world.

The idea that there is no Occident or Orient is key however. The idea that there is no "a history" is key. This is simply saying that Europeans constructed the Orient to themselves. This was to justify their behavior towards the Orient, so in turn shaped how they acted towards that area of the world and began to actually shape what "the Orient" was. _This_ in turn acted back on Europe and shaped what "the Occident" was. This is why I said that Orientalism is no longer a (mis)representation but a performance. To have it reflected in a game like Dominions is only a performance of Dominions "Europeaness". The availability of a mythicized Orient is only too perfect material for a game like Dominions though.

What is happening with this theory of Orientalism, the theory of how there came to be an Orient and what that is, is a critique of the constructing of the Orient. More generally it is a critique of the constructing of the "Other". The Other being anything which you are not.

This applies to what I had to say about Dominions like this: All of the Occidental nations are humanlike; these are "Self" to Dominions and its developers. These areas of the world are the Occident from which Dominions and its developers come. All of the Oriental nations are anthropomorphic and/or demonic: Bandar Log is monkeys, C'tis is Lizards, Yomi is demons, Lanka is monkeys and demons, Shinuyama is demon-like. I argued that TC remains human but that this is because China, TC's inspiration, is actually not mysticized and romanticized the way other Oriental areas were, but rather was always regarded as very hierarchical and authoritative. China was the most threatening area of the Orient to Europe, and they couldn't just romanticize them away. Rather Europe developed an idea of China that they could contrast with they way they imagined themselves; as an open industrious and market driven society. We see TC in the game represented with lots of commanders, each one being in some ministerial position or the other. Just like Europe imagined China in the Orient.

I'm against any "highbrow" and obscurantist stuff. But there is still a little background needed to understand Postcolonialism and Orientalism. Did I clear anything up?