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Originally Posted by Jarkko
Yep, here in north we are all giants or dwarfs. Also, couldn't help noticing all those vampires, golems and living statues when I have visited Central Europe.
Or perhaps, I don't know, the devs got ideas from local myths, and instead of blind discrimination, as is subtly suggested in this thread, the playable nations are based on those myths, invented by the local people themselves? Maybe the OP has gone slightly over the top in his political correctness? Maybe he is one of the people who thinks "robbery" is a bad word and should be replaced by "self-iniative caused by an economically challenging situation on personal level"?
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Actually I didn't subtly suggest anything at all. I outright said it.
Vampires/Golems/Statues simply appearing in the game are one thing, entire nations crafted around themes of "unhumaness" is another. Their is a subtle but consistent caesura between Occidental and Orient inspired nations in this game.
If you read my post, you will see that I am not accusing the developers of discrimination, racism, or any other such thing. I'm not even accusing KO of deliberately crafting nations based upon some myth or misrepresentation. I'm only pointing out the effects of what we call "Orientalism" on KOs work. Notice this:
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Originally Posted by Omnirizon
To have it reflected in a game like Dominions is only a performance of Dominions "Europeaness". The availability of a mythicized Orient is only too perfect material for a game like Dominions though.
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Take for example that the imagery of Egypt, that shows prominently in the themes of Dominions, is a result of European intellectuals and artists travelling to Egypt and generating art and academic knowledge on Egypt. This IS Orientalism. YOU take that imagery for granted, as natural. But imagine what kind of imagery would the world have of Egypt today had not European artists and intellectuals fell upon Egypt in throngs during the period of European colonization and produced all this imagery and knowledge regarding it? If Europe had not told the world "This is Egypt", how would Egypt have represented itself to the world?
The myths that comprise the imagery of Europe in dominions is built from, as you so correctly pointed out (and thank you for it), from _local_ European myths. Europeans saying what Europe and its myths are. Egyptian myths are actually representations of Egypt by Europeans. All the imagery you have of Egypt, the Arab world, and India are the works of Orientalism. The Orient NEVER had the chance to represent itself, because Europe did it for them. This in turn actually began to shape how the Orient would represent itself. Any "true" Orient is completely irretrievable.
As for being PC. The critiques from Orientalism and Postcol theory is anything but. You think it is PC to tell someone that their conception of history and most of the world is fabricated? Postcol theory actually emphasizes _difference_ over diversity, noting how calls for diversity ultimately benefit the dominant groups. Postcol thinkers like Fanon claim that violence against the West, as a group, is the only means of escaping the yokes of a colonial past. Being "PC" is actually part of the problem to Postcol theory. It is unabashedly rebellious, violent (even if only figuratively so), and anti-theraputic.
Sombre:
The above post should be referencing you too. There is nothing ignored or emphasized to reach my goal. You cannot deny that the imagery of the Oriental nations in the game is based upon the effects of Orientalism, because Orientalism is what has produced this mythic and romantic imagery. If we appropriate that just living in the West, a game like dominions which is fueled by myth isn't going to actively resist it. And without actively resisting Orientalism it becomes hard to make humaness out of it; because it isn't based upon humaness. All of the nations based upon myths in this game use mostly mythic figurines (notice how the ones based upon actual European peoples/tribes/cultures/empires have a lot of actual humans); and the Oriental nations are no exception. It's much easier to make monkeys fit to the irrationalized imagery of India than actual humans.
EDIT:
Oh and Honeybadger I agree that we should continue to use this imagery in a game like Dominions. Dominions is an _ironic_ game, that pokes at history. It gives a deadpan delivery of a zealously religous Marignon right next to an obviously India based nation of romanticized imagery... and monkeys. It's the same kind of resistance to hegemonic narratives that we see from a lot of more underground art that presents itself with a sort of ludic front which hides a deeper and more transgressive rebelliousness (I'm thinking, off the top of my head, of Peaches and her music). It is anti-PC, anti-theraputic, and doesn't attempt to glorify anything. This is the kind of stuff we need more of. I guarantee that those few trolls who drop into the forums raising cane on the "political incorrectness" of Dominions are well grounded and ultimately supportive of the hegemonic western narrative.