Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckfourth
Hi Cross
Excellent post.
I have a little to add,
Here are ian hoggs penetration rating for these weapons I would like to see these implemented.
"PIAT= 75mm"
"2.36" Bazooka = 80mm"
"Panzerfaust 30/60 =200mm (at 30 degrees)"
"88mm Panzerschreck = 100mm"
from
Ian V. Hogg in 'The Encyclopedia of Infantry Weapons of World War II'
These are I believe the weapons effective penetrations. For the often quoted "maximum" penetrations the resulting hole and "blast" delivered through it were minor. Many other site agree with this set of penetration values.
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Hi Chuck,
I've heard of Ian Hogg, but just about every source I looked at said the PIAT could pentrate 4 inches (100mm) of armour. The PIAT bomb pentration was tested by the MoD - as very important to them - before going into production, and even the earliest bombs could penetrate 100mm. Some sites claim 120-125mm. SPWaW (for it's worth) have the PIAT with PEN of 13, but I don't know what their sources were.
Opinons on the Bazooka were more varied from 75-125mm. SPWaW has it able to pen 9,
I found a record of a Bazooka tested against a Panther tank. 16 rounds were fired and the results recorded.
The test shows that a Bazooka can penetrate the side and rear armour. However, the side and rear armour were only about 5cm.
http://www.100thww2.org/support/776tankhits.html
The Panzershreck PEN was listed from 160-230mm by all sources, except I think one.
The Panzerfaust was listed from 140-200mm, but the 140mm was for the early 'Klien?' model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckfourth
As regards the PIAT accuracy two good arguments can be made for it to retain a lesser accuracy than the Bazooka, Panzershreck and even Panzerfaust.
from your references about PIAT,
http://everything2.com/e2node/PIAT
"An extremely heavy trigger pull impaired accuracy"
ie tensing up your hand/arm to pull the trigger is the very opposite of what you need to do to get off a good shot, that is, relax.
and
http://www.nasenoviny.com/PIATen.html
"and the weapon (PIAT) tended to kick very violently when fired"
As regards the latter of course Bazooka, Panzershreck and Panzerfaust all have no recoil making them relatively more accurate. |
As for 'accuracy requiring relaxing'; firing the Bazooka or Panzershreck was an EXTREMELY tense experience. Here's a quote:
Having actually fired a bazooka I can tell you two things about them: 1. maybe they're supposed to be recoilless but they still kick like mules, and 2. the backblast will vaporize a wooden ammo crate 50 feet behind the weapon. So, yes, you can fire a bazooka inside a building but you won't do it twice.
I also read how GIs hated to be assigned to the Bazooka, considering it a 'death sentence', largely because it instantly gave your position away - at close range - to the enemy; not very relaxing.
The panzershreck was possibly twice as bad.
To be fair the PIAT also 'kicked like a mule'. One man won a VC after shooting a PIAT from the hip and knocking out a Tiger. Commentators said, 'he deserved the VC for the bravery of shooting the PIAT from the hip'.
One site said a PIAT could hit a 1m square white board at 100yds, 9 out of 10 times. Unfortunately, I can’t find the site. However I did find a site that says the PIAT was ‘said to have accuracy on a 2'5" x 2'5" target up to 100 yards’.
http://www.wwiiequipment.com/piat.aspx
I will try to find the other site.
Another site claims the PIAT was more ‘effective’ than the Bazooka and the Panzershreck.
http://www.militaryfactory.com/small...mallarms_id=48
I read a claim that the 1st Norfolks said they could put a PIAT bomb in a bunker slit (Burma) at 50yds.
Keep in mind the PIAT was a house buster at up to 350m, and some of the German tanks were as big as European 1940s houses.
The 100m effective range is for a moving tank.
Rockets are inherently inaccurate. One site claims an early test of the Panzershreck, fired 12 times at a T34 100m away, resulted in 9 misses!
http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust3.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckfourth
Penetration values Of interest from your reference
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/browse/FYP.HTM
"75 mm of armour at 100 meters" (PIAT)
"The Panzershreck had a maximum effective range of 150 metres, penetrating 100 mm thick armour"
Best Regards Chuck. |
I disagree with PIAT and the Panzershreck pen referenced by the site, for reasons stated earlier. When a source disagrees with all other sources, it's probably not accurate. But agree the Panzershreck probably had an effective range (hit moving tank) of about 150m, not the 300m it currently has in SP.
Thanks for your input, I've found researching these weapons fascinating.
cheers,
Simon