[Wrana]

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

Wow, that's a lot to address, I'll take a shot at it.

That was without spells and items, which I am not so familiar for now, and am not sure about their effect on balance. Maybe some more on them in the end...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Arcoss the board cheap commanders/scouts with stealth 20 isn't quite what it seems. If the national version of these were the only options, I'd agree it's a bit pointless. But the independent versions of these everyone uses instead (becuase they don't eat fort turns) were not boosted, providing at least a tiny advantage to using something else.

This I understand. But still, it isn't logical. And it, for example, removes advantage Bandars have with their Markata scouts, which were not boosted, or Vans scouts. Maybe some boost would be in order, but surely not +20 to all! As for commanders - they shouldn't be so dirt cheap in any case. I can't say whether its' possible to prevent broad usage of independent commanders, nor whether is any point of trying it. Some national commanders bring clear advantages, and there are no independents with Ld 80+, for example...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Hammers for daggers sounds reasonable, not that there is any real effect.

No effect, but more logical.

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Raptors and satyrs are not more expensive than human light infantry base game, I'm not sure why CB should change that.

But in example I brought, satyr sneaks WERE cheaper than satyr infantry in base game! And you specifically mentioned that an idea was to make common human infantry cheaper... %)

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Javelins seem pretty well balanced as is, I don't really want to mess with them.

Do you use javelin version light cavalry much? Do you use peltasts much? In independents light infantry I would agree maybe - but then, they are just a chaff anyway...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*I agree a bit with multiheroes, but there is no real way to scale them down without removing them altogether. And personally I think the vast majority of people are against removing any heroes WH adds. It's also really hard to imagine the heroes being unbalancing, I recall someone did a mod with far more crazy heroes, to rather mediocre game effect.

Maybe. I just don't try such mods. And if the way is to remove them altogether... (I agree that track each one and patiently scale him/her down is a crazy work)

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*I'm actually really fond of the lady of springs, that's why in CB I tried to set her apart a bit from all the other titan options. I think she is reasonable if not outstanding choice for many nations (certainly more than the great majority of base game pretenders), though I would not be adverse to a good idea for improvement. I don't really see why forest survival is unthematic, she seems clearly a woodland type god.

So, you make paths for her as costly as for a Dragon due to being fond of her?! Girls, beware! Agree that she is a fair choice in basegame, but do not that she should be nerfed in CBM. The only possible reason I already listed - someone was afraid that she should be used with Astral to make and use pearls in crazy amounts. I don't think actual danger is so great and she is weaker than most Titans so I'd think she should retain pathcost 50...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*I think it's pretty debatable whether astral or nature gems are better on the monolith, I don't have strong opinion either way. Luck effects seem less thematic however, and would also be harder to implement.

I'd think more about Earth gems, actually, but this looks bad with it having Astral/Nature... Astral seems slightly more thematic to me as Stonehenge, etc. were used as neolithic observatories -> astronomy -> stars -> Astral gems...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*I didn't mess with the path cost on the lawgiver because it seems Illwinter must have felt it was an important thematic point, given similar pretenders path cost.

Possibly. Do you know how many people actually use him for MA Mictlan Pretender? I tried...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*I don't see any particular reason you object to Nataraja magic?
It should be considered that he is 0 points base game and almost all titans got 50 points cheaper or equivalent boosts.

Agree that he is cheap in basegame and it makes him useful.

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Similar to the Lawgiver, the lack of glamour seems purposeful by illwinter.

Possibly. I seem to remember that she had it in Dom2...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Lower path cost on the lord of war would seem to imply a mage not a warrior.

Problem is, he is too weak as a warrior without it! I tried to think up something which would make him strong enough in combat, but... Basic Awe is still more unthematic. Berserk wouldn't increase his damage output enough. Fear? Recuperation???

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*I don't see a particular suggestion on the Deva? In any case she is a very decent expander I don't see why she has to be great at a bless too.

Right now, I'd just like you (and others) to think on it. She is decent expander, yes, but the problem is most nations where she would be thematic Pretender (all India-based, i.e.) do not need such!

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Boosts for mother of monsters is not a bad idea, but removing the monster spawn seems strange.

Well, actual character she is based on birthed just a few: Pan, Chimera and Pegasus iirc. And chaff-generation seems to be unworthy of such a character for me...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Hornblower is a bag, and one that only appears in worthy heroes by itself, not CB.

I can almost swear I've seen it in CBM 1.3 few days ago!

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Heavy ashigaru armor only means it's slightly heavier than average ashigaru armor, which does not seem so unreasonable. Dominions has much heavier troops with stealth.

Well, Avalonian Wardens have magic to account for it! Bandits don't. They use piecemeal armor, having an eye on not getting caught by actual troops. Probably you could slightly boost their Def or aps to reflect this, but armor?!

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Extra morale for a scout is admittedly a rather frivolously change, but I'm not sure why it would be cause for compliant. I just thought he should get something for having a special sprite.

Well, he has a sling despite being pictured with spear only!
Maybe he should get boosted Precision then?

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Giving chariot commander super-human stats seems far more unthematic than a somewhat cheaper price. Though boosting the stats a few points, in addition to the price cut is pretty reasonable idea.

Unthematic?? These guys are based on Homer's heroes, for all goodness! And "somewhat cheaper price" made them cost less that normal chariots! :crazy" Of course, I didn't mean making them more powerful than, say, Awakened hero or Knight Commanders, but this should be about their level...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Odreiad seem quite usable and thematic as is, I can't think why I'd mess with them.

Well, they are usable, of course. On the other hand, Rakshasi cost the same iirc, while having better stats...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*I can't think of a good reason to take away wind riders lances, which they also have base game.

Except it would be very awkward to use them from Pegasus-back, you mean? Yes, it is in base game. And no, I don't like it there, too. By the way, I don't remember offhand, but think there are no other troops with big lances in EA...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Possibly modding Ulm axes to be shorter would be reasonable, but I'm not sure it would be particularly thematic or helpful.

It would be helpful - as I pointed out, this will reduce both attack and defence penalties. And having Def 10 instead of 8 will make them quite more survivable against common troops, at least. And it's thematic as far as most Howard-based fantasy goes: there are nobody wielding 2 big axes in Howard's own stories, nor are in classical Conan movies iirc (big axes are mostly used as hand-and-a-half weapons, quite sensibly).

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Why should a warrior priestess cost more than a queen? Also, I believe it is similar base game.

She is more useful? Can't just look in this case now, but generally priests are more costly than commanders... About queen - yes, it's a good reason, actually - but shouldn't she get some spice for it then?

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*I'm inclined to agree on the poison archers, but significant nerfs, especially nation specific ones, almost always result in backlash.

Well, you can always just comment it away as soon as the bug is fixed - though I seem to remember KO saying that they had no idea what causes it, so it could take quite a while...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Reduced stats seems much more appropriate for the lowest class bandar than increased gold cost.

Sorry, but ALL Bandar are higher class! And making them less able with weapons than common infantry just looks silly to me.

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Boosting eagle kings is the last thing I want to do.

Can't disagree with this. But then, they should get some weak armor (or even none at all) which would allow them to fly without too much magic. I seem to remember something called "gilded cuirass" from somewher...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*I think the palenkasha is still usually the best Lanka sacred even now, you might be right about the Asara though.

Palankasha tend to accumulate afflictions due to having no helms. And Kala-Mukha tend to be used due to the fact they are recruitable-everywhere anyway... About Asara I just don't know what to do. Even if they cost same as Anusara, donkeys are just so much better due to being effective flankers...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*The slave troll was a ready made unit already in the game, that even mentioned Ry'leh. Given EA Ry'leh is widely regarded as one of the weaker sea nations, giving them the unit seems a nice addition.

Never heard both of this, sorry.

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*MA Arco has the mounted commander base game as well.

Then why another was needed??

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*You are probably right about the hoplite commander, however arco has too many military commander to properly differentiate.

I don't know. Maybe make of them with bigger Ld but no Standard? Actually, of course, they were just from different ages...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*I don't see why I should reduce the Shuten-Dji's leadership, they are hardly uber units that replace all Shinuyamas other options.

I at least used them in preference to Bakemono Generals in basegame.. Of course, there are many mages and there are Mujinas, but as commander/thug...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Inter-nation balance is not the main goal of CB, but it's possible I could find some extra boost for Oceania. It should be noted CB does boost the early summons they can use greatly though.

I sincerely hope so.

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*I really don't like combining several human units into one, leads to all kinds of weirdness with things like soulslay.

Unless I misunderstand, SS should just trigger second form in this case... Where am I wrong? What I can see are slightly buggy afflictions (especially disease). But a possible alternative would be to make them Size 1 - and this makes them more vulnerable to trample. Another thought was Animalawe - but unfortunately, cavalry isn't considered to be animals (siege penalty it would get would be appropriate - but there are a number of animal-only spells...)

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Given that even now Jomon is most likely to recruit very little but samauri archers I'm reluctant to boost them back up.

Sorry. This I understand. Still seems somewhat, er... not good. Of course, actual Japanese armies were formed just so, but still...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Blowpipes do not get 2 attacks... though I must admit thats a nice idea.

Sorry, #att confused me. :blush: And while I disagree with this idea strongly, I still don't know why anybody would use them...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Bogarus cavalry: Not bad suggestions, though I'm a bit reluctant to so greatly revamp the way Illwinter set them out.

Up to you, of course. My own mod splitting them in 2 nations is still waiting for graphics... One day I will finish it!

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Various heroes: Most of what you mention was put in place by Turin, I have not gone over it with a fine tooth comb. However, people are in general against reducing the boosts Turin gave to heroes, even if they are somewhat marginal thematicness wise.

Which, of course, doesn't mean they are right. There are good things there - such as Vanlade getting base stats of Hagadrott he is, but many others look pretty silly...

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

*Ideally, I agree on demon whip. In practice, I'm afraid it would see little to no use that way. I did consider an only blood slave cost but that seems worse.

Is it possible for it to require Blood level, but no slaves? Nothing in mod. manual seems to indicate otherwise...

On spells:
I don't see a sense of Spirit Curse costing a gem - iirc, it just curses 1 enemy, as per Curse which doesn't cost anything...
Wild Hunt and Erinies look to get too low level - I think that thematically they should appear later in the game..
Summon Fall Bears - Bears themselves are less useful than other seasonal spirits. Maybe they should get some boost (fear/berserk/recuperation/just higher stats)?
Bane for 4 gems seems too cheap
As does Lamia Queen for 15. Maybe 20?
Great Eagle I see no sense at 7th level even as commander... Lower level?
Amphiptere I would prefer to be summoned in some numbers instead of being commander that can't lead anyone...
Zmey (Bogarus again ) I would make somewhat more GoRable by giving some random magic picks (maybe look into item slots, too)...
Summon Kappa - I would prefer to have a possibility of getting some troops of these guys. Is it possible to include 2 versions of the spell?
Celestial Servant - I don't see use in him even at 1 gem apiece. Maybe he should get some non-combat bonus instead (unrest decrease, e.g.)
Cavern Wight at lvl 1 seems too early...
As does Telestic Animation at lvl 2. Especially if you consider nations with reanimating priests...
Astral Window I think quite useful at cost 2 with no need for reduction (not that it matters much - it would eat additional gems for continuation anyway).
Both Internal Alchemy and 1000 Year Ginseng are quite useful. I think they shouldn't get quite so cheap.
Blindness seems too early at research 2.
Hidden in Snow/Sand - while look slightly too costly in basegame, seem to get too cheap here. I'd think closer to 60, considering they produce both strong troops, thugs and added magic diversity...
While I welcome Legions of Steel at research 1, I always use it anyway, so maybe it's too early here.
Why Frost Fiend is cheaper than Devil? I think it actually slightly better and harder to get at (unless you're Niefelheim). Storm Demon I'd say is better than both and Demon Knight worse. Do you disagree?
Hell Power seems too easy at path level 1. Yes, it's risky, but...
Improved Crossbreeding seems to be cheaper than just Crossbreeding. Why?
Why Demon Jester should be commander - and what a sense of it if he can't lead anyone? He surely isn't a good enough thug to summon as such...
Why make Mound Kings poor leaders? They aren't useful in other qualities (except using Fire Bolas, that is).
Also, I disagree with nerfing skeletons.
Plus, shields are "rotten" - not "rotted" (don't remember whether this was mentioned already)!
On items:
There are several instances (at least, in separate item file) when 1 item appears several times. I don't know how the game handles this, but it can be bug-threatening. Ethereal Crossbow is one, appears as 0 and 4 levels? Demon Whip also.
Boots of the Behemoth look too good for lvl 0.
Bear Claw Talisman appears with mainpath 6 (!). Who needs it then?
And Summer Sword gets const. level 0 - I think it at least useful enough for Lesser Items (2).

All the best!