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Originally Posted by c_of_red
The fact is that the T-90 is just a renamed T-72.
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First only partly true - it was a renamed and significantly upgraded T-72B. You know, the variant that by fairly simple solution brought "monkey model " (compared to T-64 and 80) to par.
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It worked, since the Indians bought 300 of them to counter the 320 T-80's the Pakis bought.
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T-90S and T-90A are already different beasties, though. Does "new turret" ring a bell?
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In the end, the only thing that really counts is how the perform on the battlefield. The T-72 didn't do any better then the T-62. The T-80 didn't do any better then the T-72.
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First: In what? Firing lots of HE? Sure, lower pressure does wonders for barrel life so the T-72 is in this aspect worse than T-62. Resisting damage? I very much doubt so.
Second: AFAIK T-80 showed to be pretty survivable, and after all T-72 as well, once the Russian commanders learned how not to fall into massive ambushes of state-of-the-art RPGs.
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American MBT's did "Thunder Runs" thru Baghdad because the crews knew that even if they got hit, they wouldn't get hurt. That gave them the confidence to be very aggressive, which is what you need in a tank crew.
compare that to the Soviet tankers in Chechnya(sp?) who knew they were dead as they climbed into their steel coffins. Brave men all. It's just a pity and a crime that they had to die proving their bravery.
As Patton said; 'The idea is to make the other poor SOB die for his country.'
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Mebbe, just mebbe the fact that US tankers in Iraq knew that the best the Iraqi's have is RPG-7 with PG-7M projectiles (the more modern ones are very scarce and began to appear later on), whereas Chechens got newer stuff? Would they be so eager to make thunder runs if they knew that PG-7L was widespread in the streets of Baghdad?
How many Thunder Runs were made by Israelis in Lebanon and Gaza? I suppose you take that the Israelis also knew they were dead when they climbed into Merkavas and so they pussyfooted with all that slow advance and infantry support stuff? Or mebbe just the Iraqis were so lame and so weakly armed as to allow for Thunder Runs?
Also notice there were no thunder Runs in Fallujah. Why was that? Did the US tankers learn about their coffins? Don't think so.