Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelloid
So lets see, you're advocating 150 pt chassis + 30 pt new path + at least 72 pts boosting the new path (S4 or you'll just get mage dueled to death, and even that is somewhat risky) + 21x7=147 points on dominion, or 399 points, and that's still a pretty minimal allfather. You're also advocating awake, so we're already 2 scales in the hole from balanced (ok, so that covers C2 of the C3 you're going to take). Now, we desperately need Mg1 and O3, and you've advocated Sl3, so our points balance. We have 31 points left which is A3 or D3 or A2D2. And you know what, that's a really crappy pretender for the points we just spent. We can pile on some misfortune (2), which gives us enough to get up to D5 for fear (from D3) plus give us A3. Of course, now we'll be fending off indie barbarians all game long, with our non-existent armies since Van's troops require non-trivial amounts of resources, so we can't mass troops very fast with Sl3. And our sacreds have no bless worth caring about. And our sacred mages/thugs have no bless worth caring about. And its not even a very good allfather.
I mean, I confess, you can just play the Allfather. You have to basically give up on all your national units, but you'll get an allfather worth caring about. Of course, you'll lose since the only thing you have going for you is the Allfather, but you can do it.
The ability to solo indies on turn 3 is actually rather pathetic for a titan chassis. Most Titans can do it on turn 2, at least if they're sufficiently careful about who they attack. (I imagine he can too. But he's not as good at it as say, the Wyrm at 1/3 his cost).
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Because, you know, taking a cheap SC pretender like the 25pt Asynja, and paying 50points each for new paths would also get you Astral and Death and *still* be cheaper than the Allfather... And did I mention she has better stats and equipment like a *chainmail of displacement* to start with, so she can be SCing from turn 2? And a boot slot to slap some Boots of Flying in?
And because, you know, Vanheim does get D1 randoms I'm reasonably sure. Or can just gain access to death via blood summons. So access to death is not exciting. So we can just save another 50 points and skip death on the pretender.
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Well actually, I have won as MA Vanheim with Allfather. It didnt make into HoF because its not updated anymore, but I did. And I am not exactly advocating him - it was quite a relaxed game with little competition, so I took him just for the sheer beauty of taking a real Norse God, not for powerplaying. And still, I liked him even if he is not the *best* thing you can take.
First off, I didnt take Astral. I just took A3D4, domain 10. When I mentioned Astral, I meant that if you make Allfather cheaper, it will be possible to take some other endgame path as well, and that may be too much.
My scales were Order 3, Misfortune 2, Sloth 1, Cold 3 and Magic 1. Pretty decent.
Vanheim doesnt require 'nontrivial' amount of resources by the way. Skinshifters are just 7 resources each, and they form the bulk of Vanheim's armies.
Vanheim has high air and earth, they have blood hunters - and with such Allfather you also have D4, which is enough to summon demiliches etc. The only thing I really missed was an earth bless for Vanjarl thugs. And, of course, Astral.
If you dont mind, I will discard your concern about Astral Allfather being vulnerable to magic duels. Allfather picks his fights - he is stealthy, and he can teleport.
D1 is tooooooo slow to get into death magic soon enough, by the way. Its enough, sure, but its really slow. Allfather can conquer an indie province (nearly any indie province, including heavy cavalry) and search it, rinse and repeat. Once you have some death income, your D1 dwarfs can start casting dark knowledge.
A boot slot is also something you wont miss. Because, you see, Allfather has his boots of flying built-in.
So all in all, Allfather is decent. Not great, but decent. Make him much cheaper, and he might get too strong. Maybe he should cost about ~100 points instead of 150 though.