Well Ritz, we can go through it all again if you'd like. Everyone here knows I enjoy these discussions.
First of all what France did in WWII does not corelate directly to a surrender in SEIV terms. It's actually closer to weaker empire agreeing to a subjugation treaty. France did not at any time cease to exsist. Germany did not annex French territory the way that they did most of Austria for example. They occupied it. The Vichey government took it's orders from Berlin of course, but they retained, at least on paper, autonomous control over their own affairs.
And once they were liberated they wasted no time in throwing off the shackles of German occupation and assisting in the war on the side of the Allies.
In SEIV a surrendering empire simply ceases to exsist and all it's planets, population, ships, units, and technology become lock stock and barrel part of the empire receiving the surrender. This is simply not realistic, even by moderm day standards. So much less so to think it wouldn't happen in a future war between star systems and different races.
When faced with a choice between subjugation and annialation as a race at the hands of an invading enemy, and cooperation and protection under the wings of a third party ally, it is ludicrious to think an empire wouldn't choose the latter.
Not to mention the fact that no race of beings made up of tens of billions of individuals spread out on dozens of planets in several star systems with dozens of ships would simply change flags because one person, their former leader told them too. The planets and ships in direct threat of destruction probably would, but those not in immenant danger would likely choose to fight on independantly, or seek the protection of a nearby friendly empire.
Now, if the game code were somehow modified to reflect this, maybe we could talk. Say for example the home system planets would fall to the enemy recieving the surrender, but planets that are in systems with or near an ally would go over to their flag. That might have some realism to it. But I am afraid that would be hopelessly complicated to design, much less program.
I would like to see some changes to allow individual planets or fleets to rebel and switch sides when faced with imminant destruction. That would add a new factor to the game and give more of an incentive to blockading planets.
These suggestions could be done in a Role Play game format without any code changes. It owuld take some work and a lot of cooperation from the players, but it could be fun if done right.
But as far as SEIV is concerned, again I say realism is not the end all and be all of deciding factors. It's much mroe important to consider the impact of surrender on the game. Complete unconditional surrender and absorption of an empire as it happens in SEIV, whether or not you think it's realistic, is just too potentially unbalancing. That is why we requested an option to turn it off, and why I always disable it in my games.
Geoschmo
[ July 02, 2002, 03:01: Message edited by: geoschmo ]