My thoughts about surrendering in SE IV.
The inability to form a true partnership in SE IV. Several players can claim that they are the United Federation of Races but there is no clean way to apply the government. With each player taking a regional director position. Now an outside force attacks, usually very xenophobic with no regards to life, vaporizing billions. Now why would the Last surviving worlds ‘join’ the enemy that has destroyed most of their culture rather than becoming fully assimilated into the other region of the Federation which it has had open and free trade for generations and possibly even many of its race already living on many worlds within it.
Surrendering to a long-term ally even outside of a direct threat is reasonable. It is the only way to represent the assimilation of another culture by another. If my Empires Partner for 200 turns has over 100 planets and my Empire 20 planets. Would stand no chance in an outright war if one broke out between us. Why wouldn’t I as the leader of my race join my people to the allied race?
Players seem to be saying the only way to conquer an enemy is by crushing them with their military until they surrender. I say that is pretty bogus. There are many other ways to beat an enemy or have another empire submit to you.
Hell this even works both ways. In one PBW game, when faced with destruction, all my allies destroyed, I pleaded for my races existence to a vastly more powerful empire. I offered my empires loyalty and services for survival. The other empire agreed though he could have easily crushed me. Over the next 100 turns my empire factored strongly into his winning as his forces fought the other superpower and mine fought the other minor powers. In the end he declared my people equal rights to his and we settled in for galactic peace, game over. It was one of the best games I have played.
In another game I tried to create an UFP type collation. There was a charter with membership rights, support pacts, research treaties. SE IV’s mechanics made this extremely difficult. But the effort was very educational. I had a horrible but secure position in one corner of the galaxy. I had no interest in going to war with my larger allies and eventually dispersed my empire among them.
Of the handful of times I have surrendered. It has always been to a long-term ally. The benefits they gained were marginal, perhaps a single battle fleet. It has never made a difference tech wise since such an ally already has all the same tech as my empire through joint research efforts. How is this wrong?
Now if an opponent attacked me in an honorable fashion. Conquering my worlds with troops rather than vaporizing them. Thus showing some consideration to my empires people. I would be far more inclined to surrender to him than another. I have never seen another player do this yet on PBW. So until I do my empire will always become refugees to an allied empire.
Now don’t get me wrong. I have also seen games where someone quits after 50 turns for whatever reason and surrenders to a random empire. Suddenly that person is in first place. So I can see were some problems lie. All it did in those games was get everyone else to gang up on the player.
I have also seen spite surrender. In one game I negotiated with a player that had a hopeless position. I had his home system isolated. Cut off from any help, I tried to give his race an honorable surrender to my superior forces. He agreed that he had no chance and told my empire he would surrender to me. What did he do, he surrendered to another empire that one of his scouts had encountered earlier in the game. One he didn’t even have a treaty with. Totally screwed me over. I could have conquered his home system with my fleet and troops but it would have been messy affair. When I tried to make my case to the other player for the unjust surrender. The other player just laughed and said ‘all is fair in love and war and go take a hike’. I was livid.
I don't see any easy solutions to this issue.
[ July 02, 2002, 19:21: Message edited by: Rich04 ]