[Amorphous]

Originally Posted by Sombre

Because it's a fear causing weapon with an interesting description? You're saying it's fine because it has a specific thing it helps with a lot. I'm saying that thing is basically worthless and no-one uses it for that. In cases like this it makes sense to improve the weapon so it's usable for other reasons, with the pillage as a tiny niche bonus.

I did not intend to say that it was fine, merely that I did not really understand what you found wrong with it. My understanding now is that you want the fear but could not care less about the pillaging. Is that correct?

I am of the opinion that if something is really worthless, then it should not be present in the stats of an item - the story around it may be a different thing. And if you remove the pillage bonus from the axe, I do not really see it as the same axe anymore. Conceivably I could be convinced otherwise.

Yes, but that has nothing to do with repel, that's the point. Repel isn't /worthless/, it's just so totally overshadowed by everything else that it's not worth trying to boost. If you increased the stats that actually had anything to do with repel, the improvement would be like 95% damage dealt, 5% repel. So why try to tailor the boost to do anything related to repelling? Why pretend that the added att and dmg is there to make the repel better?

I was thinking more in the line of theme preserving.

As you may have noticed I proposed an increase in defence, not in damage. And I see a repel weapon as rather defensive. I mentioned attack earlier as well, because each increase of 2 there, would make another repel attack likely (morale save remains the same). Thus in keeping with the theme while making the weapon noticeably better.

Sure. And 1 extra hp helps your survivability and isn't worthless. Who cares? It's too slight a difference to be meaningful and definitely not the feature around which you'd balance an item.

I do not think it is so worthless that it lacks any meaning. It is of rather small use, sure, but certainly not negligible. If you are swamped in opponents, I can see it, but against single or few it can matter. Consequently it should be a factor in balancing.

You keep talking about this situation where you have lots of death and apparently no gems of other sorts. If you're that focused on death why the hell would you be using it on a wraithsword when your thugs are going to be enc 0 undead? Why pay a premium to try and get reinvig when you can just sidestep it? You're comparing wraithsword to alchemising gems wholescale into a different type (something truly inefficient) and it's still barely coming out ahead in cost, even with apparently the ideal SC chassis to carry it.

I do not know that it is the ideal chassis, it was just the first thing that sprang to my mind. There are other strong commanders in the game that do not have 0 encumbrance. And if you have access to them, summoning undead thugs may just not be very efficient. If you have so many thugs that you have trouble decking them out, summoning more that are not any better than the ones you already have is not going to help much.

However that may be, if an item functions in a niche - though small - I do not think it needs any big boost. I like a few seldom used niche items in the game.

It is also not really a question of you not having any other gems than death gems, it is a question of not having enough other gems to cover all your needs. That happens to me a lot in my games at least.

Sure, I can think of what I would like to forge for my commanders, but if I do not have enough of the right gems, I have to make do with items that would be suboptimal given another gem distribution. And sometimes paying a bit more for an effect now nets you a better position than waiting and hoping for the future to line up nicely in keeping with your vision of reasonable gem income and expenditure.

Thats much more complicated.
Essentially,every built Wraith sword means less Tartarians to field.

No, not if you are constrained more by nature than by death. We have been over this.

Seriously,you have so many uses for death gems,that making the wraith sword better only makes the decision more difficult what to do with them.
Keep in mind also,that lowering the cost means lowering the casting requirements.E.g. D2 mages are better to come by for every nation.
Death alyways will be a very strong path,no matter how you alter the items,thats just how it is in DOM3.
I would be much more hesitant to add a new and very good fire item on the other hand since that would have a much bigger impact on the overall balance already known in this game.

I remain unconvinced by the argument that since death is powerful, we might as well make it more powerful.

Say u take only E4 bless,just +2 reinvig ,makes your example already slightly in favor of the frost brand +boots of messenger build imo.Although i still cant figure out,what shield u did take,when you are mentioning parry.

No, 2 reinvig does not really change it as far as quicken goes. And the shield is the one the Fomorian King comes equiped with.

And thats not even the best build following your (not advisable)alchemize strategy imo: instead of alchemizing the gems for the boots you could alchemize for the cheap girdle,leaving you more gems left,not less(!), or you could alchemize for the rainbow armor,adding MR in addition to reinvig,which is also nice to have for the giants.

Sorry, I was under the impression that the boots cost 5 gems, that is certainly what I used in calculating how many death gems it represented. If not, exchange them for a 5 gem reinvigoration item. Of course, you will then get less invigoration out of it.

Sure,Soul vortex might not yet be researched.
Isnt it just better then to wait for soul vortex to be researched or to make it an early research goal before mass producing SC`s with expensive weapons that become obsolete?

Not necessarily, no. If you are getting the thugs anyway, say by way of recruiting them from your capital, paying more for their equipment now may be more beneficial.



Looking at the thread this far, I do not really see any point to discuss further about the Wraith Sword as things mostly seem to go round and round (my own arguments included). I remain unconvinced, but I am not so stubborn as to not recognize that I seem to be the only one not thinking the sword needs a major overhaul. And I do not wish to take over the thread with a lost cause. I will happily give answers about my views on the Wraith Sword if someone directs a question to me explicitly, but otherwise I will keep my views to myself.

Hope that is agreeable to everyone.