[aaminoff]

I am in an MP game as Helheim and I have started recruiting a couple of Vanherses to be archers. With A1 you can self buff Aim, and they start with Prec 14 or so. The only equipment you need is the bow itself; these guys should stay in the back shooting, behind a screen of PD or whatever else is on the battlefield. So they are not thugs as such, but they are a way to use a cheaper commander instead of the ubiquitous Vanjarl. It's a side strategy, about 60-80% of my commanders are Vanjarls with golden shield & brand. I should add that I'm using an E9N4 bless.

Helcarls are actually pretty good for initial expansion, and do nearly as well as the Vanjarls as thugs early on. Unfortunately what sends the Vanjarl from good to awesome is Mistform. So one could have a bunch of Helcarls and Helhirdings and have a Hangadrott apply Fog Warriors. But at that point, again, these are not thugs, they're just very good line troops.