[Finalgenesis]

Originally Posted by Amadamus

Yes, but look at the map - there are vast areas of wasteland and low pop provinces.

Anyway, what land nation is going into the water early? The water nations get it all to themselves. The land provinces will be contested by many more players.

The map designer says the map is good for 8-10 players... why go 12?

Ah ah, but ocean isn't exactly high pop either, not to mention the city province and the 2-3x more gem income, in fact waste gives much higher chance of gem income.

Also we are getting ocean to ourselves yeah, oceania + R'yleth, you make it sound like an advantage to start in a deathmatch arena 1v1. Not early killing the other UW nation isn't doable as our 9.5 province will kill us in the mid-long run compared to a 22 avg province gold and gem income of your average land nation.

CBM makes water entry easier, and we'll on average be bordered on by many more teams then an average land nation will be with the water smack in the middle. Yes water is a barrier, but not so much as it'd be in vanilla, together with the fact that us UW nations will on average be much weaker and shaky NAP at best. I won't go into the multiple likely scenarios during mid and late game.

Now make no mistake, I actually love a tight spot and in fact I knew all this before I picked R'yleth, it makes for a tougher exciting game and I deliberately picked a 2nd UW due to this (and my love for R'yleth of course!). Diplomacy is gonna be real interesting for this one But to suggest that the above situation is an advantage...

Either way I'm fine with 11 or 12 player, one extra nation won't make a difference to me. The designer suggested 8-10, I don't see why we go 11, or 12, or why the suggested limit matters at all?