[kianduatha]

But...why are you trying to argue that Oracles should be costed as non-thugs when your own Agartha strategy guide is more or less centered around using Oracles as thugs? And they're way way way better thugs with 2 more free magic paths, higher attack and defense, and lower encumbrance.

And it's not like you're jonesing for thugs in the first place, anyways. The Gift of Reason change makes Umbral thugs cost what, 8 gems?

All that being said, there's a certain charm to at least giving the Ancient Ones slightly higher attack/def--there's no reason why an Ancient One is not more skilled at arms than a Cavern Guard. If Ancient Ones were 10 att 10 def, Seal Guards were 11 att 11 def, and then Ancient Lords were 12 att 12 def, it would make a lot of sense but still not take away from their flavor.

I'd also argue that if you're gonna lower the encumbrance of the big guys, that it should go down to 2 like all the other 'giant' races.

Finally, I'd like to point out that the Golem is a standard thug chassis and has even worse att/def stats.