Actually Im sorry Ive ever mentioned such forums. And conversations like this make me ever less likely to tell you where they are. I know others feel that way also since I can see multiple people on this forum and on Sombres who know of them. If you dont believe me, then great. Thanks for that. Lets keep it that way.
As for the discussions about Shrapnel, some points surprise me.
A) Comments about never buying another game from Shrapnel surprises me. I always got the impression that some of the loudest people along those lines had no clue that Shrapnel even sold other games. I have half a dozen or so, and demos of 4 others (altho truthfully I only regularly play 2 of the games)
B) Comments about Shrapnel being clueless seem like they can generally be disregarded if those people dont seem to know why Shrapnel exists. Where it came from, what its mission is, and how well it has done that.
C) Comments about do or die seem too black and white fanatical for real discussion. There is always grey zone. In a purely make money and get big scenario some things would be true that wouldnt seem to apply here. Some publishers (and developers) gladly fall more into the make less but do it the way you want category. I think that both Shrapnel and Illwinter fall in there and Im surprised if thats still unclear to people who have been around for a long time.
And tho Im not paid to moderate here I will again try to point out that the MODE of "suggesting" can create the opposite effect than desired. In a small company (publisher or developer) some of your "flawless logic" can poison the waters to being considered or accepted. If anyone REALLY WANTED such companies to change their viewpoint then I have to feel that they wouldnt possibly word it the way I see it worded in threads like this. Such an action wouldnt make sense.