[Shangrila00]

Originally Posted by Valerius

But that logic applies to any thug chassis. I play a lot with Sidhe Lords, one of the best (maybe the best) thugs out-of-the-box. But even they need some gear if you want them to handle more than a few points of PD. So gems are always an issue.

Well, as you say, Sidhe Lords are about the best. They just need brand and shield with a high bless. Zamzummites need that, plus armor and helmet and a ton more research. And opportunity costs of course, it's hardly unlikely for the number of Adons to outstrip equipment availability. There's a legitimate choice between deploying Sidhe Lords as thugs or your cap only's if you don't have the resources to field both, not so much with Ashdod.

CBM has already changed the emphasis of zamzummites from spellcasters to thugs, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Like I said, I think the second random should become just death. Disintegrate is not really an argument, no more than storm of thorns. Death battlemagic needs D3s and 1/4 is too few for serious death battlemagic.

Originally Posted by Executor

Well don't reedit so I can't see.

I editted 13 minutes before your response. Did you really spend 13 minutes writing that?

Didn't say teleportation is OP, just that they too have that option. And I'd rather have an astral teleporter than air, magic duel or not.

Do you have any actual justification for this? A 500 gold cap only with only S2 is about the ideal target for magic duel, and the MA is the strongest age for astral.

It doesn't as you don't need zero reinvigoration against indies.

You have repeated claimed the increase in encumbrance does nothing to Adons. Are you saying that too, like your claim about year 1 geared Adons was not intended to be taken as an actual claim?

Against a human opponent you wouldn't risk an Adon like that.

If Adonim can't be risked against humans before the human can field counters, why exactly are they OP?

Why can't I? They are great if you chose to expand with them at which point they don't need equipment. Sure you'll need to stay clear of some provinces but that's always been the case and you'll need some extra help on others. And than you get to the point where you face a human opponent at which point you throw in items to make those Adons really nasty.

Everybody has to be careful against heavy cav and elephants. Adonim have to be careful against something like half the indy provinces you are likely to see in an initial expansion. And if you are recruiting Adonim for expansion, they aren't going to be notably nasty until well into year 2 thanks to your awful research. If you aren't, you are leaning on expensive regulars, expensive mercenaries, and expensive researchers while your scales are not exactly great (combining misfortune and death, how fun) thanks to a high bless that you aren't even using. Unless of course, you just decide not to take a high bless for a unit that you won't even field until year 2. How exactly are they OP again?

Moreover, you seem to be forgetting your initial claim, that Ashdod can field fully geared and buffed SCs year 1, and nobody else can, and that's why Adon are OP. You've now admitted that's not actually true, that Ashdod can gear up SCs no earlier than anybody else. At which point, how exactly is an Adon superior to the geared, mistformed/mirror imaged Fom King, or fireshield/earth buffed Dai Oni that would also be fielded at the same time?

It's pretty clear that you tried to argue that Adonim are OP by combining all the things they can do in all possible strategies and pretending it's all possible in the same game, which is manifestly false.