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					Originally Posted by BewareTheBarnacleGoose  I dont want to beat up on you megawidget- but I'd prefer the ettins dead. You actually do have the means to kill them- make a ring of water breathing (const 0), give it to one, send it underwater, take it away. The next turn, it will drown. Rinse and repeat.
 I hope there is no ill will on your part. Im sorry that Calahan was rude to you, but I agree with his arguments. Luck in getting good magic sites is part of the game. But even sites with path bonuses usually save you only a few gems- the Alt bonus/ wish scenario is a rare case, and isn't relevant until late game. But the free ettin is 14 free nature gems (without even costing a mage/turn) per turn. That's huge! The RNG argument also makes no sense- it affects all of us equally, and we all accept that chance is part of the game anyway. Also, I think it should be obvious that using a known bug is clearly not good sportsmanship.
 
 So, I hoping you see where we're all coming from, right?
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 I can take off a ring of water breathing while in an underwater province? 

  Somehow I didn't think that would be possible.
And yes, I see where you are all coming from, that's why I stopped recruiting them. 

  I admit I haven't really figured wild ettins to be that great.  They're naked giants with shoddy defense and rather worthless without construction research, from what I gather.  But then, I never tried them unkitted so maybe they're secretly great and I just don't know.  I saw reports of them on the CBM thread and exactly nil response to that.  The vanilla exploits, however, appear to be well documented and linked from the strategy guide index.