Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG
The SU-85 has been available in the Russian OOB in June 1943 for AT LEAST a decade. One day I'll dig up all the old copies of the game I have on CD so I can check back further but up to now I've always had better things to do so I can say that as of Nov 2002 it has been set to a 6/43 introduction and that up until now it's not been challenged
I will be happy to change that if solid info can be found that is NOT based on a wiki quote.
Don
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Sure, wiki quotes don't prove anything, but shouldn't the burden of proof be more on positive claims, such a "X type of tank WAS used in Kursk"? Also, OOB availability and campaign design are not the same thing. I have no problem with SU-85 being available in the game by the earliest theoretically possible date, just wouldn't use it for Kursk without further confirmation. In other words, even if it's correct that the SU-85 was available and not just produced by June 1943, it doesn't implicate that it fought the Germans in Kursk.
The question of SU-85's appearance in Kursk is, or at least has been, a controversial issue. The assumption of SU-85's participation is present in several older sources predating the internet, which of course doesn't make the assumption wrong. That is not the case with the vast majority of armoured vehicles appearing in the game campaign under discussion. Tigers, Stugs, Hummels, T-34s, SU-76s etc. being there isn't disputed by anyone.
But as I understood this game campaign wasn't even meant to be an exact as possible simulation of the historical campaign, it doesn't matter so much IMO. It doesn't promise anything it doesn't provide. I took it more as an adaptation of one interpretation of history, as seen in the tank simulation Panzer Elite. Taken as such, I found it well-designed and entertaining.