Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyburn7
I finally have time to chime in a bit. Couple thoughts/points
3) There was a somewhat long thread on the main forums page about NAPs. The consensus seems to be there is no consensus. Some players think its perfectly acceptable to move 20 stealthy armies into every province during a NAP, cancel, then spring a huge Alpha. Others would be appalled by that. My view tends to be the strictest form. No spies, so stealthy armies (only scouts allowed), no "offensive globals" (like UD) although I think dispels, etc. would be ok. Perhaps in future games, players should be encouraged to define the details of the NAP when they make them. I see lots of areas of potential conflicts.
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I know this horse has been beaten to death, but I can't resist to get in one more kick:
To underscore one of your points, I totally agree that in a Machiavellian diplomatic game with no defined NAP that players are going to have varying ideas of what constitutes an agreement.
However, due to the depth of the game it might be difficult to hash out a comprehensive agreement without a lot of work and not without sounding very lawyer-like.
Unless someone in the community comes up with a precise definition of what constitutes a NAP (which is highly doubtful based on what Matty noticed) I think that anyone playing under this model will need to be accepting that these situations are going to occur and that NAPs are open to interpretation.
Personally, I think invasions, remote assassinations, and remote attacks, e.g., Fires from Afar, are gross violations of a NAP and reflect unhonorably upon the violator. However, if you're violating the NAP because your opponent is doing something hostile or even potentially hostile such as casting a destructive enchant, building up a possible invasion force on your border, or even sending in scouts, etc, then you have Causi Belli to launch your own attack. Everything else is fair game -- including anonymous actions, e.g., dispel, although if they find out and interpret your action as hostile then be prepared to face the consequences.
I'm mentioning this in case I play with any of you guys in the future so you know where I stand.
Scout infiltration might be a bit controversial, but even if they don't cause too much damage when found (and I have first hand experience they can depending on the layout of the forces -- play a game as MA Ermor with all their Nether Dart spam and chaff and you'll see) they are gathering valuable intelligence that serves primarily one purpose: to plan an attack. In some other games I've been in players will send a friendly message asking for permission to let them move scouts through their territory.
In this game, I didn't make a big deal about Atlantis's scouts since I wasn't eager to start a war with him at the time, although it spurred me to send in my own scouts. However, if the situation was different, I would have been justified to use it as a pretext to war.
Note: I don't think it's wrong to spy on people you have NAPs with -- just be prepared to handle the consequences if they are caught.