[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

In Post #412 my second ref.

post 412 is a good example of why sometimes I loose focus reading your posts

Well my posts on the ABRAMS were meant for the new survival rating 7, in my last Post #406 on the ABRAMS, I sought to relay the importance of DU armor as why I listed it on the earlier list in Post #400 of tanks. Consider the ABRAMS in the second criteria I used for listed tanks again for the increased survival rating 7. This has been on my mind for years but I let it go for my own reasons. First DU armor is about 65% - 75% denser then lead depending on the ref. also I've read on average DU is at least 2.5 times stronger by weight as compared to modern MBT Steel armor. So is there room for armor improvement if DU armor was never factored into the ABRAMS tanks in the game. Then I guess the answer is yes.
So to answer your question the first tank to have DU armor was the USA M1A1HA (HA=Heavy Armor with DU added into the tiles.) in June of 1988 assigned to units in Germany (You must remember East Germany was the only Warsaw Pact country to field Soviet manned T-80 tanks.). All previous versions M1/M1A1/M1A1IPIM relied on advanced Steel and Ceramic tiles only. M1/M1A1 would slowly be upgraded to the M1A1HA standard. In months before the Gulf War the USMC would "borrow" 60-80 M1A1HA tanks (Again depending on source.) By late 1995 early 1996 most to all M1A1 tanks would have DU armor tiles installed work was about to finish up on a 2nd Gen DU armor around the same time.
So key points about the refs...
Ref. 1 The armor protection level tables are a key to understanding this DU issue as development of the ABRAMS progresses.
Ref. 2 Page #47 is to the point for this discussion with related battle reports. You also get a really good preview of the book concerning the M1/M1A1.
Ref. 3 Backs up the rest but, what's interesting here is how the M1/M1A1 armor packages affected the UK and Germany armor decisions.

When THIS would be more readable

Well my posts on the ABRAMS were meant for the new survival rating 7, in my last Post #406 on the ABRAMS, I sought to relay the importance of DU armor as why I listed it on the earlier list in Post #400 of tanks.

Consider the ABRAMS in the second criteria I used for listed tanks again for the increased survival rating 7. This has been on my mind for years but I let it go for my own reasons. First DU armor is about 65% - 75% denser then lead depending on the ref. also I've read on average DU is at least 2.5 times stronger by weight as compared to modern MBT Steel armor. So is there room for armor improvement if DU armor was never factored into the ABRAMS tanks in the game. Then I guess the answer is yes.

So to answer your question the first tank to have DU armor was the USA M1A1HA (HA=Heavy Armor with DU added into the tiles.) in June of 1988 assigned to units in Germany (You must remember East Germany was the only Warsaw Pact country to field Soviet manned T-80 tanks.). All previous versions M1/M1A1/M1A1IPIM relied on advanced Steel and Ceramic tiles only. M1/M1A1 would slowly be upgraded to the M1A1HA standard. In months before the Gulf War the USMC would "borrow" 60-80 M1A1HA tanks (Again depending on source.) By late 1995 early 1996 most to all M1A1 tanks would have DU armor tiles installed work was about to finish up on a 2nd Gen DU armor around the same time.

So key points about the refs...

Ref. 1 The armor protection level tables are a key to understanding this DU issue as development of the ABRAMS progresses.

Ref. 2 Page #47 is to the point for this discussion with related battle reports. You also get a really good preview of the book concerning the M1/M1A1.

Ref. 3 Backs up the rest but, what's interesting here is how the M1/M1A1 armor packages affected the UK and Germany armor decisions.

and yes I know there are time limits ....that's why I write long posts in my email program first then check them over, check spelling ( sometimes.....) then cut and paste them to the forum when I'm happy with it and that way you don't get locked out of editing and can take all the time you need to write the post..... I can edit anything at anytime and a message appears when it was done ( like this one ) but that function is not available to the average poster

Just saying Pat ..........I have less and less time to take in all the info....RL has been ganging up on me and is getting more complicated so I skim or cut and paste things like this to my "list" for later study but when I do that the web links are usually lost and I DO appreciate the time and effort you make here but sometimes you are giving a thirsty man a drink with a firehose .and it's hard to take in fully when it's all in a big lump of info