[Kiwikkiwik]

Hi Scopio_rocks
The reason I say snipers are more powerful than a HMG is that when shooting at infantry the most expensive sniper will kill more people than a HMG, that seems absolutely unbelievable to me. And of course some people do buy lots of snipers.
OK you don't need 10 new snipers in each OOB you just need the few types in each OOB relevant to any particular country. At the moment countries have more sniper types than they had different telescopes, my argument being that there should only be as many different sniper types as there were different telescopes for each country. The changes I suggest are easily implemented because you can just change the RF and FC values to what I suggest for some of the existing snipers and remove the surplus snipers by making them like unit 001 in the Australia/New Zealand OOB. As I understand it those redundant snipers will then still be available in the scenarios but not for a game. Some of the service dates will still be wrong, But overall it would be big improvement, ie historically accurate. Only the German OOB is too crowded, which is always a problem, but it would be a great improvement to just change the FC and RF values of the snipers already there to whichever of the types applicable to the Germans that you like. You wouldnt get all the various telescope magnifications the Germans actually had, but the capabilities of each unit would now correspond to what is historical. All this can be done without looking into any scenarios.

But the good news is that it appears the scenario probelm is fixable anyway! It appears that it would be possible to rework the scenarios by saving the weapons information into the Scenario .dat file then the biggest difficulty for correcting the errors in the OOBs goes away! NO problems with the scenarios!, The next Game version could be presented with all the scenarios reworked into that format. I think this would be an icredibly worthwhile thing to do because, No offence intended, but every time I get a book off the shelf and compare it to this game I find lots of stuff wrong, witness my last 3 closed TOE threads. Ammunition, Forts and Snipers.
You mentioned that maybe the scenario creators might take advantage of being able to adjust the OOBs, but I'm sure you can trust them.

Hi Mobhack
No I dont want OOBs with10 levels for snipers. The number of snipers that should be in each OOB are detailed in the original post and is usually LESS than there currently are for any particular country in the game.
Mobhack I'm not posting to push my point of view. Or for that matter posting what "suits" me. Im posting what are the facts, or you could say what is the truth. Im just presenting what various Authors who've had a good look at the subject say. No one dippute that any of the facts presented are correct. Actually it is the game that has a point of view, that seems to suit someones elses a-historic view.
I would Imagine that under the financial constraints of bringing the game to market there isnt enough money to research the units properly and so you get the bland generic categories as exist in forts and snipers, Fort units in particular clearly don't correspond to anything real. Now I thought that the idea of this community was for people to contribute to the game by filling in these type of gaps in the game OOBs which is what I have done, but that doesnt seem to be happening. I also thought this forum was for discussion and as my threads are promptly closed discussion doesnt seem to be an option either.
I would note that no justification whatsoever is supplied to explain why the game units are the way they are, none. And rather than discuss the inaccuracies I've presented, the methods I suggest to fix erros are attacked instead, Im ridiculed, and the discussion blocked before anyone else has a chance to contribute.

Troopie This is a common problem historically speaking. Snipers are often mentioned in historical accounts but these accounts are often referring to a sharpshooter or marksman who is a good shot but doesnt have a telescope. Or even to independant activities using patience and excellent fieldcraft but again without a telescope. During my reading on the subject I've discounted all accounts of snipers if it isnt made clear that they had a telescope. So I think these untelescoped types should be marksmen. I am also discounting hunters that might have found their way to the front with a scoped hunting rifle. I Imagine this would be pretty rare, and presents a host of problems which I won't go into. I agree that the Spanish Republicans could have had scoped snipers from 1936 onwards, but as for Carlists, Moors and Nationalists I can't confirm their use of telescopes, though of course a photo would be worth a thousand words.

All I am saying is that the snipers FC and RF values should reflect the telescopes they had, which at present they don't. For example, Russia only ever had 2 telescopes, 3x and 4x. Yet in game Russia gets 7 different sniper types with FC and RF values of 0, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 10. So if you do tie FC and RF values to telscope magnification then Russia gets just two sniper types instead of 7, plus an unscoped marksman. The same problem exists in all the OOBs. Can anyone answer on what basis the Russians get these 7 different sniper categories?

I think it is important the nations that didnt have telescoped snipers don't get them because snipers are very powerful units, they kill more people than HMGs. I think these units can be relatively painlessly removed by making them Unused like unit 001 in Australia/New Zealand OOB.
I've found no accounts of snipers carrying or using smoke I would remove snipers smoke, this would make them more cautious ie realistic. Id also make them slower.