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Old December 14th, 2002, 03:51 AM
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Default Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews

RE: Design argument in my own words. Here goes (I don't claim to speak for other creationists, but this is the design argument as I understand it)...

Intelligent design requires intelligent designer. Man creates (or more properly, organizes what is already created), based on his intelligence. It's like a child playing with Tinkertoys--he's not truly creating, but rearranging what's already been given him.
Given the fact that we see design and order around us, it is logical to assume there is an intelligent Designer behind it. So far, we're okay with Hume's representation, but here we must part ways.
Hume uses the wording "like results, like effects" to say that the process of creating nature is identical to man's creative process, only several orders of magnitude higher in ability. Thus, God's creative process, like man's, must be imperfect and subject to limitation. This renders God no longer infinite, and few Christians will accept that.
The problem lies in Hume's extension of the principle. To continue our analogy, he extrapolates the child building with Tinkertoys to the factory making the Tinkertoys from other materials (still an imperfect process, but much less limited than the child's ability). The correct analogy from creation would be the child building with Tinkertoys and the factory creating the Tinkertoys out of nothing (an infinite order of magnitude higher). Hume, as a materialist, is operating from the assumption that something had to exist for God to use in creation; otherwise, his analogy falls apart. It's just a fancy straw man.


Thank you for answering more than I asked.

But anyways, no, that is not really the design argument. I have never heard anyone use a tinkertoy before, and that just makes the analogy even worse than it has to be. Instead, I will use a house, as houses aren't built wholesale in factories (the tinkertoy technically works too, but not quite as you used it). A house does not just appear naturally, someone had to have designed and built it. A house is relatively ordered. Looking around the world, it appears ordered and so appears designed. So, an analogy is used to infer that since the house had a designer, the world (universe) must have had a designer. It has nothing to do with "creative processes" or anythign like that.

The first problem with this is that it is an analogical argument. For analogies to work, the things being compared must be nearly identical to each other. The universe and a house (or a clock, tinkertoy, ship, whatever) are absolutely nothing alike. They arent even in the same domain. eg: You could use an analogy comparing a dog to a cat, as they are both mammals. It wouldn't be very good, because cats and dogs are very differen't animals. But, the analogy works on a basic level because they are both mammals (and animals). You could say, a cat has a heart, so a dog, which is kind of like a cat, must also have a heart. But, you could not compare a cat to a tree or a rock, as there is no basis of similarity. There is no basis of similarity between the universe and a house/tinkertoy. So, the argument by analogy does not work here.

Secondly, the design argument can not say anything about the perfection, infiniteness or unity of God, assuming you still want to say that it proves some sort of intelligent designer exists. Architects (or those that design tinkertoys) do not only design 1 house. They do not work alone. So, you can not use the design argument to say that there is only one universe, or that there is only 1 god. Also, architects design some bad houses before they become good. So, is this universe a bad universe that God made while still learning to make a universe? You have no way to tell. You would have to have another universe to compare it to. Of course, it is assumed that God is perfect and made no mistakes when designing the universe, and so he did not have to make any "test" universes. But, this can not be infered from the design argument.

Continuing to expand upon the flawed analogical argument, the architect (or designer of a tinkertoy) does not stick around to care for the house (or tinkertoy). So, you can not infer that there is a benevolent God from the design argument.

At best, the design argument shows that there could be many gods, they/it are not necessarily perfect, they/it are not necessarily benevolent, and not necessarily infinite.
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