Post-Patch (2.08) "Improved Spellcasting AI" discussion

[tinkthank]

I was the most excited about the "Improved Spellcasting AI" note on 2.08 and downloaded immediately.

I have only tested 2 nations with various scenarious since 2.08, and I have noticed following spellcasting improvements:

- AI mages cast Breath of Winter less often
- AI mage targeting slightly better
- AI mages cast defensive boosts (shields etc.) less often as battle continues

But I have not yet noticed much other AI improvements. Who has? Or: Can we get some details together on what has improved?

I have noticed

- Pythium Comm. Masters will *still* kill their slaves by casting spells such as "phantasmal warriors" when *independent* armies are *already routed*
- dual/triple/sextuple redundant buff castings (blessing, etc.)
- casting poison resistance / cold resistance when fighting no poison-inducing (cold inducing)troops or mages (indy archers and militias)
- casting totally useless spells (lone Theurg casting communion master on himself, them communion slave)
- prevalence for casting summoning spells no matter what the situation; some spells *never* get cast (such as orb lightning!)

Things I would like to see:
- increase value of casting summoning spells when enemy outnumbers you, otherwise not
- decrease value of casting high-fatigue spells on routing enemies
- decrease value of casting low-precision ranged and area-effect spells on routing enemies
- increase value of casting positive buffs during the beginning of battle
- decrease value of casting beneficial debuffs (like "sermon of courage") at the beginning of battle
- decrease the value exponentially of casting positive buffs when one is already cast
- decrease /increase value of specific "type only" defensive buffs depending on enemies (fire resistance vs. barkskin, etc.)

What do the others think?

[ February 17, 2004, 08:18: Message edited by: tinkthank ]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
- dual/triple/sextuple redundant buff castings (blessing, etc.)

I haven't seen this with blessing. My troops only bless who hasn't been blessed, though the AOE might overlap. The only instance where someone casts ineffecient Blessings is if someone has Divine Blessing and they are 'Last' on the casting chain and other priests cast their smaller Versions before them.

As for Sermon of Courage, the AI casts it if morale needs to be improved from death/morale loss. So multiple castings while seeming to do nothing, are in fact trying to raise the morale, I see no issues with it right now.

- casting poison resistance when fighting no poison-inducing troops or "green" (nature) mages

Mages are a minor portion of units that have Poison and there are quite a variety of units that have poison attacks or effects. I would rather this spell be cast even superflously since there is no way to resist Poison Damage.

- prevalence for casting summoning spells no matter what the situation; some spells *never* get cast (such as orb lightning!)

I think this has been mentioned repeatedly, and at least once to you, that range affects the likelyhood of casting of spells. Also fatigue factor. Most summon spells will fire multiple times if the fatigue isn't out of whack (if they are not scripted to). Try scripting spells that have 100 Range like Mind Burn and see the results. More than likely 99% of the time they will do as you intend because of the limitations on range.

Things I would like to see:
- increase value of casting summoning spells when enemy outnumbers you, otherwise not
- decrease value of casting high-fatigue spells on routing enemies
- decrease value of casting low-precision ranged and area-effect spells on routing enemies

I have seen very few of my spells that were not scripted be cast on routing enemies unless the mage has no spell that will hit the range of the back units (more than likely archers). So I don't see how this is not already accomplished, see Ranged above for more information.

- increase value of casting positive buffs during the beginning of battle

I would not enjoy this implemented. If I have a specific desire to fatigue my mages out casting multiple defense buffs, I will script them. I would prefer mages to cast any offensive spell they can if within range if left without scripted spells (Which I would not do if I cared about initial buffing spells, so I don't really see the point)

- decrease value of casting beneficial debuffs (like "sermon of courage") at the beginning of battle

This is a debuff? I thought it was a morale stabilizer.

[ February 17, 2004, 08:29: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Wendigo]

I have always held the spell AI very high, back from the times of DomI. I always play MP relying heavily in magic, and it seldomly lets me down.

IMO, most of the complaints about the spell AI originate from lack of knowledge of the spell system & its mechanics. Players complain when the AI wastes gems casting the script it was told to use, yet they also complain when the AI overrides the instructions. Players complain when the AI cast a spell they consider useless, yet they did not bother getting enough research for the AI to have alternatives, or fielded their mages out of range...

I recently faced a massive undead host in a MP game, the Ermorian pretender was there (hidden) and showed up in the battle casting Foul Vapors for which I was unprepared. I had a number of druids & lizard shamen in my host. The nature mages started casting heal & healing light on my commanders on their own when past the scripted orders, saving around 20 out of my 30 commanders, that would otherwise have died to poison. The spell AI is good, if you give it the means (research, range) to be good.

- AI mages cast Breath of Winter less often

This one (and related ones), was one of the few valid complaints IMO.

- AI mage targeting slightly better

I have mixed feelings about this. Some evocations can truly waste an army.

- AI mages cast defensive boosts (shields etc.) less often as battle continues

This is a good change from IW.

- Pythium Comm. Masters will *still* kill their slaves by casting spells such as "phantasmal warriors" when *independent* armies are *already routed*

I like this actually. I envision mages as arrogant bastards who care little for their lesser. To see them showing-off casting spells on a routed enemy looks thematic to me. Besides, this helps balance communion, which is already extremely powerful as it is.

- dual/triple/sextuple redundant buff castings (blessing, etc.)

No spell choices/range/better choice IMO.

- casting poison resistance when fighting no poison-inducing troops or "green" (nature) mages

There are some acid (w+f) spells which can poison I believe, neither those were posible?

- prevalence for casting summoning spells no matter what the situation; some spells *never* get cast (such as orb lightning!)

Out of range likely (do not forget that the battlefield is bigger in DomII). Orb lightning used to have a high value for the AI in DomI, and I do not think it changed.

[Wauthan]

Noticed my friends in MP games were very reluctant to script their mages to "attack one turn". Since most of the attack spells as well as general accuracy is dependant on range it's important to shuffle the mages closer to the action. Heck with some kind of good protective gear and a solid weapon my mage heroes are usually set to cast buff and then four times attack one turn. That will usually put them right in the fray were their spells have the largest possible impact.

After two wellchosen buffs mages are often tougher than heavy infantery so getting a stray halberd on the head is usually no problem. I tend to have my mages hollering profaneties right in the thick of it without any casualities.