Tank carry capacity

[Imp]

What are the criteria for a tank having a carry capacity, normaly of 13 or 6 for a light.
I assumed Reactive armour or VIRSS would negate as would a combination of TI & Laser rangefinder due to not obstructing equipment.
This holds true for most but some for example Leo series can still carry troops at a pinch. Why if the likes of a Chally or Abrams cant? Applies to upgraded M series of tanks to & probably some others. Certainly with the modern stuff which is pretty fast think should err on the side of no capacity, I would not like to be the guy hanging on as the player moves it flat out cross country, bit diffrent from sedate travel down a road. The main time it gets used at least by me is flat out travel to extract or possibly at start of the game before move to contact. Or end game to move by a flag on vehicle unfreindly terrain so again probably going flat out. After all if your tanks in combat mode infantry can pretty much keep up & its a lot safer for them.

[Suhiir]

I've always assumed the basic criteria is the size of a standard infantry squad for a medium tank, just because it makes "sense" from a game mechanic point of view. Thus a US Army tank may wind up with a smaller carry capacity then a USMC one ONLY due to the difference in the size of an infantry squad.
Note - I said ASSUME.

I believe Don once mentioned that tanks with reactive armor, and engineer/mine clearing tanks are automatically given a carry cap of zero.

With the Abrams and Leo's I believe it's a matter of doctrine more then anything. These days there are LOTS of APC's, IFV's, and other transport so tanks don't "need" to act as infantry transport. Also while the M60 series had grab bars for infantry as part of it's design the M1's do not.

So sure, while modern tanks could carry infantry...would they as standard practice?

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

I've always assumed the basic criteria is the size of a standard infantry squad for a medium tank, just because it makes "sense" from a game mechanic point of view. Thus a US Army tank may wind up with a smaller carry capacity then a USMC one ONLY due to the difference in the size of an infantry squad.
Note - I said ASSUME.

I believe Don once mentioned that tanks with reactive armor, and engineer/mine clearing tanks are automatically given a carry cap of zero.

With the Abrams and Leo's I believe it's a matter of doctrine more then anything. These days there are LOTS of APC's, IFV's, and other transport so tanks don't "need" to act as infantry transport. Also while the M60 series had grab bars for infantry as part of it's design the M1's do not.

So sure, while modern tanks could carry infantry...would they as standard practice?

The thing is I think there should be some uniformity to it & there will be the odd exeption like the French High Tech Armored Car you can buy with a small carry capacity in Escort role I think. But it comes in a formation with its riders & I think has reduced ammo to compensate.

Riding a tank with reactive armour or VIRSS would certainly make it an even more dangerous place to be if fired upon so agree its a no on the battlefield though I bet moving up people would still hitch a quick ride. In battle though I would think the practice has died out & was only really a Russian thing. Yes I am sure the odd short trip is still made & if the game could handle the vehicle being restricted in speed with riders on board all well & good. But as said flat out tends to be how they are used so think erring on the side of no carry & getting some uniformity is the way to go.

I am not advocating no riders just feel to frequent as its not an in battle thing at speed unless retreating in which case I would take my chances on the tank to get out of there.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by Imp

In battle though I would think the practice has died out & was only really a Russian thing.

Well...old lady memories time again...

I very distinctly remember seeing USMC Grunts riding atop M60 (or possibly M48) tanks as part of the Infantry Training School in 1974-5.
I remember it because I was pissed they wouldn't let us gals try!

Now I can't say one way or another if it was "standard practice"...but every USMC grunt at the time was taught how.

[Wdll]

The only case where I would consider it ok nowdays is if after the battle a MBT goes "home" and carries a couple of passing by soldiers or something. Else, it just doesn't make sense.

[Skirmisher]

Most of the modern MBT's don't have any carry capacity. Except the Isreali Merkuva.

Most if not all older tanks have some. Not sure why.

Your eardrums wouldn't want to be anywhere near a main gun when it fires.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

Most of the modern MBT's don't have any carry capacity. Except the Isreali Merkuva.

Most if not all older tanks have some. Not sure why.

Your eardrums wouldn't want to be anywhere near a main gun when it fires.

Thats my point why are Leos exempt, Merkerva can I think supposedly carry a half squad & that strange stretched T-72 Ukraine uses so they are fine. In fact due to game mechanics may carry on the outside never tried.
I can sort of see why M series allowed if as Suhiir said has grab rails but either ban once get TI or alternativly on any tank with a speed over say 16 that has TI that way the player is at least better off using APCs as they are all faster so really would only use in a pinch. Can of course have house rules but its quicker if sorted in game by an arbitery cut off rule. Alternativly give them a lower carry capacity like 4 or 6 as have to be on the rear deck & cannot carry most squads unless trying to extract them or another tank crew which seems the most likely use to me although sending in an APC while tanks cover it would be more logical, but hey its war needs must.

Your eardrums wouldn't want to be anywhere near a main gun when it fires.

Be good if main gun firing auto unloaded squad & added 50 suppresion

[Skirmisher]

I think I'd rather walk.

[Imp]

Well...old lady memories time again...

Now dont be giving your age away

As I said sure its done but less so I feel from the 80s which is what the game represents though lesser nations with a lack of transport might well continue to use.
Just want uniformity its up to Andy & Don how they swing it as its their game which is why as you stated M series has grab rails suggested any with speed above 16 as well as other criteria or a reduced capacity. Leos & M series are used by a lot of nations so if they can carry why cant others is what my point was.

[hoplitis]

Merkava carries troops internally as passengers not as riders.
Active antitank missile systems is a good enough reason to prohibit "riding" the tank. Higher speeds of MBTs probably plays a role.
But I think that the turret design of most modern MBT is a factor you must take into account. Most turrets are relatively "short" in the vertical but quite sizeable in length and width. They cover most of the upper surface of the tank's hull. Add some "slopping" here and there and I think that you'll find that "riding" a tank isn't so easy as older tanks with smaller turrets and more available "space" on "deck".
As for the game ... as long as the Merkava "perculiarity" is already taken into account, and riding modern MBTs is not a wide spread hobby (), no need to change anything. A scenario designer can always change the carry capacity and choose riders or passengers to suit his needs anyway.