MA: Jomon: The Courts of the Ryu - Looking for insight

[legowarrior]

I'm considering making a mod for Dominions 3 to create a Jomon nation set in MA. It would be based around the Heian Era of Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heian_period

The reason I want to make a mod is the because of the crazy spells the Jomon get, from the 5 signs to Kami they can summon. Oh and the Ryujin are cool.
With all these cool things, it always seemed like a waste that the Jomon would be in the last era, where magic is the weakest. Here you have a great combination of magic, but few ways of getting it. I decided that a Middle Era for Jomon would be appropriate. Something Balanced with present day CBM 1.92.
In many ways, I wanted to conserve many of the elements of the Jomon, with out being boring or redundant.
No, what I am looking for is a nation that shares something in common with the Shinoyama, but was different, like Lanka and Kailasa, or Helheim and Vanheim.
My plan would be that both Shinoyama would have common summons (Tengu, Tigers, Nushi and Kitsune) but Shinoyama would get Oni, the Jomon of the middle age would be unable to summon Oni and get Jigami, Mori-no-Kami, Uljigami, Kaijin, Tatsu, Kenzoku, Gozu Mezu, and Yama-no-kami, and the 5 signs.

With the Ryujin, I wanted it to be a nation of water and a little astral, air and earth.

I'm thinking that their starting magic would be 2 Water, 1 Astral, 1 Air, and 1 Earth.


This means a centralized empire, with the Samurai just starting to rise up to social heights, but mixed in would be a greater use of the Ryujin. There are no Daimyos yet, and the Samurai are few and consider elite. Some of the inspiration does come from Rise of the Samurai.

The emphasis will be more on Long Bows then Jomon of the Future. This is because during the Heian Period, The Bow and the Spear were king, while the sword was for a secondary weapon. Horses are also rarer, and Heavy Samurai Armor is not present. Overall the army should be less resource intense, but also weaker.

Story:
Fleeing the Yomi, many peasants from refuge by the shore, where the Ryujin held sway. In exchange for fealty, the Ryujin would help protect the Jomon from the Yomi, and later the Bakemono. With the rise of a new God, the Jomon, with their allies, set out to conquer those that originally enslaved them and create a new empire.

Non Magical Leaders
Gokenin - Longbow, Katana, Samurai Armor, Kabuto
Not much different from the the original, except for the addition of the Long Bow. No Mounted version, since Horse are rare.

Jito - Wakizashi, Ashigaru Armor, Jingasa, Patrol: 10.
Stewards of the land, these guys know the area. Weaker then the Gokenin, they are good on Patrol.

Kokushi - Lance, Katana, Samurai, Kabuto, Mounted
Your high end leaders. Basically, like the Daimyo but with less armor.

Ninja - Ninjato, Shuriken, Chain Mail Cuirass, Assassin:1 Stealth: 30.
Exactly the same is the later era Ninja.

Basic Troops -
Bottom tier (better than milita) - Ashigaru come in two types in this era, Short bow and Yari. The yari version is identical to that of the later era. Both are weak chaff units, peasants with some training. Better then Milita, but worse then trained warriors.
Ashigaru (Short Bow) - Short Bow, Wakizashi, Ashigaru Armor, Jingasa.

Ashigaru (Yari) - Yari, Ashigaru Armor, Jingasa
Same as above.

Middle tier (cost 10 gold a piece) - The attendents are a train soldier. The samurai of this era was a rare position and so the Attendants came as an inbetween station. Later the Attendants would become part of the samurai class, but during this era they're were trained warriors not considered samurai. Lacking the Kabuto, and using weaker weapons, they would be no match for later day samurai in protection or defense, but they will be easier to mass.
Attendant (No-Dachi) - No-Dachi, Samurai Armor, Jingasa

Attendant (Naginata) - Naginat, Samurai Armor, Jingasa

Top Tier - Samurai - During the Ryu era, the Samurai were fewer and the term was reserved only for the most elite units. Equall in skill to Oban of the Daimyo era, they excelled at the Bow and spear more than anything.

Samurai (Longbow) - Longbow, Katana, Samurai Armor, Kabuto

Samurai (Mounted) - Lance, Katana, Samurai Armor, Kabuto

Temple Units

Monk of the five fold

[legowarrior]

Reserved

[legowarrior]

Reserverd

[Shangrila00]

The Bow and Spear were always dominant in Japanese warfare. It shifted from mounted archery, to bow and spear and other polearms (mainly nagatina), to musket and spear and other polearms, before the Tokugawa Shoguns pacified the entire country. The sword was always a secondary weapon, as a backup to spear, bow, or musket. The greatest predominance it ever achieved in actual warfare was the very end during the invasion of Korea, in which musket troops (with sword sidearms) were present in such number that they were often pressed into melee.

Jomon always drew more from myth than history anyway, but insofar as historical systemic shifts in warmaking can be applied to the era system, the big ones were from mounted combat and individual champions to mass infantry, and from the current samurai dominated warfare to ashigaru (evolving from rabble to professional soldiers) dominated warfare in a hypothetical post-late era. The current Jomon is something of a mix-and-match as it is, with sword troops that never existed, crap militia ashigaru, and heavy shock cavalry which were historically introduced concurrently with professional ashigaru and massed musketry.

[Squirrelloid]

Something to keep in mind about historicity, the katana was originally a cavalry weapon. The curve and length of the blade are pretty indicative of this. Which also matches what is known about japanese warfare before massed ashigaru.

[legowarrior]

Hadn't realized that. Right now, I'm sticking to two types of samurai, Archers and Mounted. I'll be back tomorrow with some better updates.

A taste of what I'm looking at is Capital Recruiting of Ryujin and Shark Warriors (and an amphibious Priest), but weaker mages.

I'm thinking of stealing the priesthood from the traditions of the Ryukyu Islands, where woman are mostly the priest.

Otherwise I might look at Ogamisama, in which there are two types of priestess, the sighted and the blind. Something to think about.
http://radiantdark.wordpress.com/fem...nism-in-japan/


Some notes, I'm thinking about take away access of the Oni from the MA Jomon. The story line rational is that they fled the Oni, and so wouldn't want anything to do with them. Also, with early access to the sea, the Jomon are more powerful, so I think that the loss of Oni and Shura might balance them slightly in the beginning. We shall see.

[shatner]

With the emphasis on fealty to and recruitment of ocean spirits/dragons, you should probably make it so this nation starts adjacent to a water province, like LA Atlantis or LA Marignon. You will definitely want to include some sort of "can lead X troops underwater" ability with at least one of the commanders (maybe the amphibious priest you mentioned). Finally, are you going to give them access to sailing?

[shatner]

And this is just an idea I'm gonna throw out there to see what people think:

High-end samurai heroes/summons: You said you want to have the emphasis be on samurai being rare, elite soldiers, and since a quick trip to wikipedia shows the Heian period as being when the samurai took over Japan and started getting big on bushido, why not work some bushido-ness in some way. I'm thinking, create one summonable thug or hero for each of the seven virtues of bushido. This can be treated like summoning elemental royalty, where you cast one spell and get a randomly selected unique unit. This could help fill the void of some of the higher end oni summons that LA Jomon gets and add some extra flavor to the nation. EA Hinnom already does something like this with their spell Release Lord of Civilization, though I'm sure we'd want these summons to be lower research and less world-shattering.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by shatner

And this is just an idea I'm gonna throw out there to see what people think:

High-end samurai heroes/summons: You said you want to have the emphasis be on samurai being rare, elite soldiers, and since a quick trip to wikipedia shows the Heian period as being when the samurai took over Japan and started getting big on bushido, why not work some bushido-ness in some way. I'm thinking, create one summonable thug or hero for each of the seven virtues of bushido. This can be treated like summoning elemental royalty, where you cast one spell and get a randomly selected unique unit. This could help fill the void of some of the higher end oni summons that LA Jomon gets and add some extra flavor to the nation. EA Hinnom already does something like this with their spell Release Lord of Civilization, though I'm sure we'd want these summons to be lower research and less world-shattering.

Modding that requires repurposing an existing similar spell. There's no way to create a new 'summons one of several unique creatures' spell from scratch.

[Admiral_Aorta]

It seems like it would make sense to have different spells for each type of samurai anyway.