TPz Fuchs

DRG · #1 February 4th, 2011, 12:15 PM

Does anyone know what year ( for certain ..) when the Milan was first mounted on the Bundeswehr TPz Fuchs and how many missles are carried ?

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #2 February 5th, 2011, 03:07 AM

Don,
On the quick here's what I found:
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1084.html
Checked link at the bottom, not MILAN but TRIGAT-MR ATGW. Designated PARS-3MR MERLIN for German forces. Initially a joint German, UK and French (Belgium and Netherlands on the medium range missile only.) project designed to replace MILAN. Date looks like 2002 time frame with turreted 4 missile launcher. Based on next ref used on AMX-10P, TPzl-FOX/FUCHS and VAB/VCAC UTM-800.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3659.html
Missile variant (PARS-3LR) also used on the Euro-copter Tiger AH.
So far nothing found on FUCHS w/MILAN so far.
Regards,
Pat

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #3 February 5th, 2011, 04:52 AM

Don,
Is this payback for my last patch post!?! If I didn't know any better I'd think you "baited" me with this thread!?! Anyway to the serious stuff, MILAN is good as well as the previous post but, in limited numbers. This is the best I can do for a timeline for you and the sources aren't from what I'd normally use there fore I won't post them, however the info is fairly consistent across the board.

1. MILAN fielded in 1972.

2. FUCHS fielded in 1979.
A. Many of the "refs" make mention that the Fuchs carried MILAN 1 teams on board initially to counter the Soviet threat.

3. MILAN 2 fielded in 1984.
A. German Army mounts MILAN 2 on MARDER 1 and FUCHS 1 at this time roughly by mid-year. FUCHS in recon role will maintain ATGW station w/2 MG stations through all FUCHS 1 and upgraded versions to include the current FUCHS 2. Looks like with a single re-loadable launcher with MILAN 2.

4. MILAN 3 fielded in 1996 with improved MILAN 2T sometime during this timeframe.
A. Not with the German Army, this would support previous post.
http://www.deagel.com/Anti-Armor-Wea...000881001.aspx
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/milan/

Got to hit the rack ASAP, it's a work day later this afternoon. Sorry I couldn't find more, hope it gives you a little more then what you had or supports it.

Good night all!

Regards,
Pat

DRG · #4 February 5th, 2011, 08:30 PM

Pat, I asked for anyone ( not you specifically) hoping the few Germans that I know lurk the forums would have the answer but you appear to have provided it and I will investigate the TRIGAT issue

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #5 February 6th, 2011, 03:29 AM

Don,
It's no big deal, can't sleep after I get home from work anyway to "keyed up". And bonus, I was born in W. Germany as an "army brat"! Here's some more on TRIGAT-MR & LR which apparently can be ground vehicle launched as well.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mr_trigat/
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/lr_trigat/

Regards,
Pat

DRG · #6 February 6th, 2011, 02:21 PM

I wish these links had the date posted on them. There's a lot of... "The missile was expected to enter service in 2002." quotes. That article appears to have been written 10 years ago . Even the second article seems to have been written 3 or four years ago with "expected to enter service in 2010." and "PARS 3 LR missiles are to be delivered by 2014 for the German Army Tiger UHT helicopter"

As far as I can tell this thing might be almost ready to enter service someplace maybe soon.

The bottom line is I'm not adding it to anything just yet and the one that shows up in Turkey of all places will be re-nationalized for now

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #7 February 6th, 2011, 03:32 PM

Don,
On the TRIGAT-MR the army-guide.com has the most solid "wording" on production status as "development complete" and "due in 2002".
This next shows the contract was signed on 30 June 2006 for 680 TRIGAT-LR ATGW msls. with final delivery to be completed by 2014.
http://www.deagel.com/Anti-Armor-Wea...001124002.aspx
Contract transactions/deliveries to this point. Shows first deliveries in 2006 for 75 units and every year to 2014.
http://www.deagel.com/equipment/Anti...t-a001124.aspx
That the German AH TIGER has them I have no doubt of but, what concerns me is that even though the "LR" can be land vehicle launched, I can't find anything to positively say it is mounted on the FUCHS or any other German APC type. The answer for the FUCHS might lie in what is the PUMA IFV using now?
Seems to be a reliable source I've already used on the "patch" posts most recently and on the MILAN part of this thread. I've conducted "news" searches on DefPro, and Defence Industry etc. with no luck.
I think I've gone as far as I can with this topic as well without getting into the national papers in Germany though I've been there for other items such as M60T etc. As always you've got the final call.
Here's the home site for any that might want it:
http://www.deagel.com/news/

Regards,
Pat