Carrion Woods - Issues

A Few Issues with the Carrion Woods

Whether Intentional or not:

Carrion Dragon cannot use Personal Regeneration (since he's undead?) I think this should either be adjusted to allow him to have Regeneration, or if that is impossible, give him regeneration and adjust his cost. (Edit: Yes I know you can use Regrowth on him, but he can't use it himself, since he's a pretender and can't have levels in Unholy, alternatively just have Personal Regeneration cast "Regrowth" on him)

Carrion Dragon initial Paths do not count towards Bless Effects.

Carrion X (Dragon, Lord, Manakin) are all counted as Undead and Magical Being, making them doubly vulnerable. But they are not 100 Cold Resistant Like other Undead, and not unable to go underwater.

Carrion Wood Dominion Kills *Faster* than Ashen Empire, even with Growth 2 vs Death 3. There is no way to use Unburied Corpses (No initial Death Gem Income, Reanimators only reanimate Manakins which do not use corpses with no other options). Also while Carrion Woods Priests (Carrion Lords, etc) are expensive, they reanimate nearly equally in low numbers (3~5 a turn, AFAIK)

Carrion Wood Dominion also provides supply for the enemy (... ) while you do not use it. Perhaps Growth Scale in Carrion Wood should count as Death Scale for supply vs other Living opponents.

Making a Prophet makes an Unholy Prophet, even if formerly the unit was Holy. This Nulls the effect of any "Blessing" of Living Units or "Sermon of Courage" which is an initial weakness of Pangaea (their Satyrs have terrible morale).

Perhaps make the Dryads have Unholy instead of Holy?

Give Apostates or Carrion Lords 1 Pick of Random or 1 Water.

The other option of an Enter Site for Carrion Woods to summon Black Centaur (or even something else) would be an alternative to an elite unit.

[ February 07, 2004, 11:31: Message edited by: Zen ]

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Zen:
...

Carrion Wood Dominion Kills *Faster* than Ashen Empire, even with Growth 2 vs Death 3. There is no way to use Unburied Corpses (No initial Death Gem Income, Reanimators only reanimate Manakins which do not use corpses with no other options). ...

Are you sure about this? Carrion Woods dominion should only kill at one fifth of the rate of Ashen empire, discounting the scales, ie 1% per dominion step.

30120 (Starting Population)
29940 (Turn 1)
29460 (Turn 2)
28110 (Turn 3)
26810 (Turn 4)
25580 (Turn 5)
24400 (Turn 6)
23030 (Turn 7)
21740 (Turn 8)
20530 (Turn 9)
19380 (Turn 10)

What is that? 8% a Tick, this is with Growth 2 BTW, not Growth 3. Sorry my brain is a little off. I don't know the Ashen Empire death rate off the top of my head, but maybe it's a little under or equal to it. I don't think it's quite to the 1/5th stage.

Edit: As you can see it doesn't start off too bad, but once your dominion starts to kick in (I believe) it starts chewing you down pretty quick. The example above is with 5 Dominion.

[ February 07, 2004, 14:01: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Teraswaerto]

Maybe the Carrion Woods starting site could give more than 5 gems. It could be like Ermor, 10 at normal richness, and so forth.

[johan osterman]

I have checked it out, Carrion woods kill off pop at the rate of 1% per dominion step, which should be one fifth of ashen empire, IIRC

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Zen:
30120 (Starting Population)
29940 (Turn 1)
29460 (Turn 2)
28110 (Turn 3)
26810 (Turn 4)
25580 (Turn 5)
24400 (Turn 6)
23030 (Turn 7)
21740 (Turn 8)
20530 (Turn 9)
19380 (Turn 10)

What is that? 8% a Tick, this is with Growth 2 BTW, not Growth 3. Sorry my brain is a little off. I don't know the Ashen Empire death rate off the top of my head, but maybe it's a little under or equal to it. I don't think it's quite to the 1/5th stage.

Edit: As you can see it doesn't start off too bad, but once your dominion starts to kick in (I believe) it starts chewing you down pretty quick. The example above is with 5 Dominion.

By my calculations you lost an average of 4.3% per turn (1 - (19380/30120)^(1/10)) leaving you with 64% of your original population after 10 turns. This is about what I would expect if you had max dominion of 5, didn't reach it for a couple of turns, and had a growth scale to offset it slightly. Eventually it should stabilize at 4.6% loss per turn with Growth 2 (until you build enough temples to gain more dominion).

IIRC Ashen Empire doesn't even start with a full 30k population, but even if they did, I doubt if they'd have 64% of it after 10 turns.


I think that in addition to the Apostate, CW should get either the normal Pan or the Pandemoniac (either would be interesting). Losing both for the Apostate is too harsh as nature and death don't go together very well - about the only thing they cooperate on is Manikins, which you already have through the reanimators.

I was about to say that if they get the Pan, they should get the no-Maenads Version, but... why not a Corrupted Maenad? More berserk, maybe more strength, lower defense (and maybe attack, but will get it back when berserking).

On the other hand the cross breeding, dark vines awakening Pandemoniac would suit CW very well too. You'd have to keep moving your blood hunting grounds away from your dominion, but blood summons and death mages can work together very well.

I also wouldn't mind seeing the CW Grove's gem income changed to 4N 1D. It would slow their Carrion *** summoning initially, but give the Apostates (or god) more options to raise a fighting force quickly.

Finally - if Desert Tombs can start with an unholy priest, why can't Carrion Woods start with at least a Carrion Centaur? I'd gladly give up the starting Black Harpy for it (I can easily make one of those if I want to, while Carrion Centaur is a several turn wait and *then* it starts to slowly animate manikins).