Mod in Progress: Holy War

[Burnsaber]

I'd like start to by stating one major thing that annoys me in vanilla.

Priests blow

[RANT]
This game is all about gods rising into power by starting a global holy war. There really is no thematic reason for priests to blow so much on a game with that kind of theme. Besides blessing your sacreds, everything that priest can do, can S2 mage a *lot* better (Mind Burn > Smite & Paralyze > Holy Word) and he can research and cast other spells if needed. When was the last time you recruited a priest for non-blessing reason? Have you ever recruited a pure H2 priest for his awesome priestly powers?
[/RANT]

Something has to be done.

There's one bug though, that's especially limitating.
- Pure holy rituals are only castable by mage priests (since pure H priests do not gain the "Cast Ritual" command) and the game crashes when you try to monthly cast a pure H ritual. So if I implemet some pure H rituals, they need to have effects that do not encourage monthly casting.

Here are my personal views on what's wrong with holy magic, priests in general and sacreds. Feel free to question my points or even add your own ones.

1) Most nations have their top-capital only mage also as their best priest. This is a problem as I boost holy magic, I'm also making these mage-beasts even more powerful. Having the cake and eating it too is convenient, but it decreases the amount of stragical choices you have to make when recruiting.

2) Some nations don't have access to any better priests that basic H1 loser. Althought it might thematic for some nations, it's not really fair to exclude them from the benefits of this mod.

3) Most nations have their only sacred unit as pretty medicore and capitol only, which excludes bless stragedy from their pursuitable options.

4) Some nations have really, really powerful sacred troops. Since I'm beefing up priestly magic, some upward changes in the bless stragedies might be experienced, but these units really do not need to get any more stronger.

5) The two artifacts that boost holy power. It's a sort of solution to the problem 2, but only the first player to hit con8 will get them. So, kind of problematic.

6) As the game progresses mages get the ability to nuke the world to oblivion while priests do the same stuff they did in turn 1.

7) S1H1 or B1H1 mage can Communion/Power of the Spheres/Hellpower himself up to higher holy levels, making pure priests even more rebundant.

I'm dividing this mod in three parts, depending on the area I wanto to "fix". The mods are listed in the order of completion.

Holy War: Divine Magic
- Design Goal: Boost Divine magic in general.
Includes:
1) Adds three new holy level 0 spells.
H1: Faith Healing - "Using his divine powers, the priest will heal wounds of some friendly soldiers. This spell won't affect undead or constructs."
Range: 15+, NoE: 1+, Prec:100, Fat:0, Dam:5+(AN), UW+, IA-, UD-

H2: Smite Heretic - "Using his divine powers, the priest will smite his heretical opponent. If the opposing sacred is strong of mind, he might be able to resist the holy power."
Range: 15, Prec:100, NoE:1, Dam:30, Fat:0, MR+, UW+, Against Sacreds only

H3: Chastise - "Using his considerable divine powers, the priest will enfulg one opponent in divine radiance. This show of divine power won't harm the target, but is very frightening none the less. Some targets might see the error of their ways and join the ranks of one true god."
Range: 25, NoE:1, Prec:100, Fat:0, MR negates easily charm, nextspells "Frighten"

2) Boosts some excisting holy spells

- Smite to range 30 and damage 30. Also #nextspells "Smite Heretic"
- Smite Demon to range 30 and damage 30
- Word of Power now AoE 1 and #nextspells "Chastise"

3) Adds 16 new researchable holy spells. 2 for each magic school on level 3 and 7.

4) Adding more holy sites and making them do holy stuff whenever possible. (This part will be incomplete until I actually make the units I'm intending to add as recruits from these sites. Most of these units will feature in Holy War: Sacreds)

Holy War: Priests
- Design Goals: 1)Boost pure priests and make national pure H priests more useful.
2)Allow all nations easier access to strong pure priests
Includes:
1) Juggling of priest levels within the recruitable commanders of the nation.
- If a nation has a H1 pure priest and no mage-priests, the priest will be H2
- If a nation has a H1 priest and a mage-priest with H1, the priest will be changed to level H2
- If a nation has a H2 priest and a mage-priest with H2, the mage priest will be changed to level H1
- If a nation has a H1 priest and a mage-priest with H2, the priest will be changed to level H2 and mage-priest to H1
- If a nation has a H3 priest and a mage-priest with H3, the mage-priest will be changed to level 2

Bad Points: This might cause some thematic issues, but I'll be using this excuse: The weaker the unit, the humbler. The humbler priest -> better priest.

2) Where it is possible, I'll add national holy spells that are only castable by your national priests as an extra carrot to recruit them.

3) I'll add a holy hero for each nation which lacks a hero with at least minimum H3. (So that all nations have at least theoretical access to H4, through prophetizing)

4) National priests will also get other abilities when I deem that is neccessary: #onebattlespells, decreasing unrest, summoning flagnellats, healing.. etc

5) Common independent priests will be made unrecruitable with resourcecost of 800. This will encourage recruiting national priests


Holy War: Sacreds
Design Goals: 1) Allow easier access to generic sacred units to allow nations with poor sacred units to pursuit a bless stragedy if they so wish.
2) "Balancing" sacred troops

Includes:
1) Add one sacred summon to each combination of holy and regular magic. These sacred summons will be low research level 1?H1 and low gem cost, but summon only one unit per month. Thematically, these troops will be former servants of the Pantakrator, that now lack something to worship.

2) Change the Kappa independent poptype to shaolin-esque sacred monks. Hoburgs will be changed into templars.

3) Nerfing of overly powerful sacred troops (probably 10% gold cost increase), weaker sacreds will get 10% cost reduction.

[Sombre]

I'm probably only going to be interested in the lite version of this, so I'm grateful that you're splitting the mod into 3.

May I suggest also boosting Smite to max possible range.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Sombre

I'm probably only going to be interested in the lite version of this, so I'm grateful that you're splitting the mod into 3.

May I suggest also boosting Smite to max possible range.

Yeah. I know that the independent change might not be liked by some people. I just feel that those medicore capital only sacreds kinda limit your options by making bless a bit rebundant (This especially annoys in the case of Marignon, the most holy nation with *meh* sacreds, what's the idea with that?). I'm actually thinking of scrapping the other big change of limiting mage-priests and making the *cloistered* versions. I figured other ways to get the effect I want without changing them.

But about the lite version. First I thought that I had only two options, either make smite AoE or make it instakill. Thank God I've come to my senses now. I'll probably bump the damage to 30 (enough to kill most basic giants, but not one-shot popular Thug/SC chassis). Max range might also be a good idea, allows for some exotic stragedies. I'll probably make the smite also #nextspell the new "Smite Heretic" spell, so that it's double effective versus opposing sacreds (since it forces two checks).

In Vanilla "Holy Word" is a cruel joke. You go all that trouble to prophetize a H3 priest to get a attack spell that's worse than smite? I'll make that bad boy AoE 1 and nextspell "Smite".

I'm a bit puzzled thought as what to add as a new H3 combat spell. Divine Bless and Smite are pretty good enough. Large AoE Heal spell? I was also pondering on the possibility of mr-negates-easily charm.

The holy monthly casting bug is *really* annoying. I can't make holy summoning rituals since one might understandably want to monthly cast them, but that crashes the game. Free Astral Window is the only idea I have currently. I'll most likely have to scrap the idea of pure-H rituals completely.

Originally Posted by pyg

I love the idea and am looking forward to trying it out. I'm most excited about more priest spells even if they aren't that much more powerful.

Well, the lite version will likely be out soonish since it won't be that big really. If it's done this week or next or at the end of the month depends on how hooked I'll get to "A Vampyre Story" game I'm playing right now. At least today at work most of my mental efforts were put into figuring out possible solutions to a puzzle, so it's looking quite bad.

Originally Posted by Endoperez

Lots and lots of stuff.

I gave a bit more thought into the summon thing and figured out a way to wiggle out from the mage-priest change. I'll make the holy summons not that powerful, but low-level and you'll only get like 1 or 2 of them every casting. Those kind of summons that mostly cost mage-time are not really useful to be casted by your monstereous 400+gp 6?H2 mages (they have much more important stuff to do). But that 2pick H1 guy? He'll love them. Now if you really want to, you can complement your cap-only sacred by using your low-tier mages to summon more of them.

And you gave me a way to make the battlefield spell unattractive to them! I'll add few spells on national basis to the guys that really need the help. Sure, the beast-mage-priests might able to use them too, but I'll probably make them non-scaleable and the effects minor but useful.

Oh and one last thing. It seems that the bug of having pure H spells unviewable on the research screen has been fixed! About a year and half ago I remember running into this with Alugra.

So, how do you guys feel about researchable pure holy spells? That's not really "vanillaish", but then I would be able to make much more powerful spells and partially solve issue 7. I'll probably do some but should but them in lite or the regular version..

[pyg]

I love the idea and am looking forward to trying it out. I'm most excited about more priest spells even if they aren't that much more powerful.

[Endoperez]

Look at updated Jomon of the upcoming patch. You'll probably like the idea behind Monks and Signs of the Fivefold Path.

Independent priests will replace all H1 national priests unless you change them. I suggest giving them base encumberance 6 and new armor, "ornamental robe", prot 3 enc 8. That way they can still preach, but they'll go quickly unconscious.

Different nations have different concepts of the paths, so don't get too caught up in definitions. Instead, consider what nations will have easy access to which spells. It'd be more work, but consider making all cross-path holy spells nation-spesific. Holy/Air, for example, is anything from Pythium to Eriu to Vanheim to Tien Chi to (MA) Mictlan. Mictlan should have holy/air spell, because their god is the sky, others just happen to be air mages that are priests.

Of course, it would be much more work, so here are some thoughts on the matter. First, MA.

MA Arcos: only native priest is Priestess, H2N1, and they heal the wounded, so H2N1 healing spell is pretty self-explanatory.

MA Ermor: all about priests, doesn't need anything more.

MA Pythium: Battle Deacon is the only one that needs the boost. Unfortunately, you can't add a combat buff to Battle Deacons without giving angels access to the same buff. Then again, I guess a nation that can summon angels doesn't need priests that much.

MA Man: priesthood is weak on purpose. If you want to add something, then add something about praying to the dead or calming the dead, since it's in their description. Perhaps just a better Banishment?

MA Ulm: better off than most. If you just give Black Acolytes a chance of E1 and add a H1 buff spell, Ulm player will build some Acolytes to get more Iron Blizzard casters, and use the rest in the frontlines to buff the troops.

Ma Marignon: Change Holy Pyre to fire/holy. Marignon should also have some spells to use against enemy sacreds, and a F1/Holy 4 spell only castable by High Inquisitor prophet, a hero or a HI with an artifact. Also, Fire/Holy version of the Inner Sun ritual.

MA Mictlan
Aspect of the Rain, the life-giver: healing spell
Aspect of the Sun, the watchful face: gives the faithful "strength of heart"
Aspect of the Moon, the dreaming face: since prophetic dreams are hard to do, it could just cause enemies to fall asleep
Aspect of the Sky: "harsh judgement in the form of thunder"
Aspect of the Land: no idea, but Priest Kings already levy Slave Warriors.

MA Tien Chi:
One can have so much fun with them. Think Masters of the Way and national spells. Same applies to MA Shinuyama.

MA Machaka: already has three unique priests, all more or less useful. Ears of the Lord are H1 spies, Eyes of the Lord are H1 okleaders (40) with patrol bonus 15 and Voice of the Lord is H2 and greatleader (80). Is it possible to make spells that only affect animals? Hmm, or give them a custom Blessing that also gives Antimagic to the sacreds.

MA Agartha:
H1E1: Will of the Earth, earth grip + fatigue, fatigue scales with holyness and is MR-negates, number of effects scales with holyness
Waters of the Earth: H1W1, single-person Encase in Ice +cold damage, damage scales with holyness and EiI is MR negates (freezing waters from the depths of the earth spring forth and trap the enemy)
Fires of the Earth: H1F1, combustion and fire damage to single target, minor poison damage on AoE1 (noxious fumes and gas explode from the depts of the earth, burning the victim and poisoning anyone nearby).
There could also be a Holy/Death spell for Oracles, and another high-Holy spell for them and Marble Oracles.

MA Abysia: should share Fire/Holy and Holy/Fire spells from EA Abysia, and get a new Blood/Holy spell for Demonbreds. Description of Anathemant Salamanders speaks about them "feeding the anger inherent in the hearts of all Abysian warriors" -> berserk. Also, consider changing Inner Furnace to Fire 1/Holy 2-3. If it's Holy 3, Salamanders can't cast it with Phoenix Power any more, but on the other hand, it gets extra penetration from extra Fire magic and it's easier to spam since the caster gets less fatigue from it.

MA Caelum: H2 Seraphines are the only priests, and frost flowers and wing-cutting don't make for combat spells. Could you do a H2 Raven's Feast that killed the casting Seraphine? LA Caelum's Caretaker's description mentions predatory birds devouring dead Caelians.

MA Pangaea: They don't need anything more.

MA C'tis, Jotunheim: no ideas.

MA Vanheim: Vanir are your priests AND your mages. I'm not sure they warrant anything new, but it'd be easy enough to do.

MA Bandar Log: Yogi definitely need all the help they can get, but I'm not sure what one could do with them. Perhaps range 0 Sermon of Courage?

MA Ashdod: they don't need anything more.

MA Atlantis:
Blessing of the Deeps, H3 Friendly Currents.

MA R'lyeh: their priests walk the Void, and that's unique enough.

MA Oceania: Bishop Fish really need something more. Preferably something that would also be useful on land. Perhaps H3 Haste or Quickness.

MA Eriu: Holy/Air illusion would be nice, but they can already cast those. No idea.

[Endoperez]

So you can make researchable pure-Holy spells? If so, you have to decide a school, and that affects which nations get to use what priest spells. Why not put a holy spell at each school's levels 4 and 7, or something similar? (3/5 and 7 for construction)

Conjuration:
4 - better Banishment, H2?
7 - a battlefield summon spell for one or few weak creatures/spirits, perhaps 1 per Holy level? perhaps something on Ghost Wolf power level?

Alteration:
4 - better Bless: bless + buff (perhaps luck), self only, H1
7 - unit buff, H2 Legions of Steel, +4 strength or something

Evocation:
4 - H2 damage spell similar in power to a Bolt spell, but not elemental damage (no immunity)
7 - AoE 1 or AoE 1+ damage spell, H2, again non-elemental

Construction:
3 - ???
7 - Summon a sacred Watcher-like construct with gold upkeep. Ranged attack that deals extra damage against demons. or something better. Pity there aren't any Holy items.

Enchantment:
4 - H1 heal spell, nr of effects scales with Holy
7 - banish or control magic being, H2-3

Thaumaturgy:
4 - H3 Panic/Terror-style spell
7 - high-dmg Mind Burn at enemy sacreds only

Blood:
4 - H3 Curse + Horror Mark + Decay + (resistable) stun
7 - H1-2 spell that causes affliction

[Burnsaber]

I just managed to finish "A vampyre story" (12 hours well spent, trust me) and I'm now able to fully give my attention to this mod.

To Endo: Good ideas. I'll probably put the researchable holy spells to the regular "Holy War", since I'd like the "lite" version stay as vanilla firendly as possible.

That's a good idea on the gold costing holy summon. That's one way to get past "monthly casting pure H ritual crashes the game"-bug, since you probably don't want to spam them. Actually, I have a fitting graphic somewhere in here (see the attachment).

I was something like this:

Graft Holy Tablet
"The priest will spend a month engraving his gods divine mandates into a huge stone tablet. Once the Tablet is completed, the priest will summon some holy spirits to enchant the Tablet with divine radiance. The tablet will spread the word of god and decrease unrest in the province whence it dwells. It will also smite opponents who come too near it. But the Tablet needs constant maintenance in the form of expensive daily sermons needed to keep the holy spirits inside the tablet.

Those holy spirits are a bit problematic, thought. What kind of spirit could be considered as holy by all of the nations? I'll try to figure something out...

Got it! I'm kind of guessing here, but Pantakrator probably was worshipped and thus he had a priesthood/divine helpers of some sort. Now that Pantakrator has vanished, these servants still do their sacred tasks but lack something to worship. A clever pretender god could perhaps convince them that he is the rightful new Pantakrator and gain their worship.

EDIT: I'll update the first post today to the new desing goals

[Endoperez]

I think the tablet should state exactly how much gold its upkeep is. I don't know what's a reasonable amount, especially if it lowers unrest. Putting few of those into a rich province and increasing taxes would double the income without lowering population (since you don't even need to patrol).

I think Holy War Lite should have all kinds of pure-holy spells, and the bigger version should have more crosspath spells. I was thinking of Lite on my last post, trying to make the spells just holy versions of effects normal mages got access to several research levels earlier. A single-target damage spell at Evocation 4 isn't going to change balance one way or another. The only one I can really envision changing things is the Thaum 7 spell I suggested, because it will target enemy mage-priests if he doesn't bring any sacred units. Perhaps one of the Construction summons should be 20-hp, high-mr moving base that has a magical ranged attack. Anyone could construct one or two of those and use them to draw the spells away from the more vulnerable mage-priests. Or perhaps just make the spell have non-100 range, so that it's possible to position your important mages out of the range of enemy priests.

[Jarkko]

Burnsaber, I like your idea on Holy War Lite If I could add just one more idea for you to ponder:

Make all *national* pure priests (so not those mage-priests or SC chassis "priests") gain one level in Holy. So H1 priests would become H2, H2 would become H3, and H3 would become H4 (and in cases where H3 priests can be recruited everywhere (like the Lizard King for C'tis) change them to Capital only). Of course the price would have to be adjusted accordingly

Currently there is really no incentive to buy national priests (except H3 ones, if you have a good bless the possibility to bless them all in one go and then smite smite smite), as indy priests are able to do everything national priests and you can recruit them from non-fort temples.


For Holy sites, maybe monasteries from where you can recruit special priests or sacred troops. Like a warrior-monastery, from where you can recruit crusaders (Heavy cavalry stats but they are sacred), Faith Healers (immovable H2 priests (movement 0/8 for example) who have the Healer attribute; those with afflictions would have to come to them to get a chance on getting healed), a location where you can summon Flagellants ("Temple of Retribution" -> A priest can enter to summon flagellants, and perhaps even a place where you could recruit sacred assassins ("The Lord works in many ways", recruit assasins who are considered to wear the Shroud of the Battle Saint).

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by Jarkko

For Holy sites, maybe...

Would you mind it if I incorporate some of these into Magic site Mod?
1) Temple of War (Holy 1, uncommon): units heavy infantry, knight; commanders crusader (H1), high priest
2) Monastery of Healing (H2, uncommon, unique): commander Faith Healer