How to mod Angels to not be wimps.

[Huzurdaddi]

So angels are supposed to fight the devils in an eternal war. Except if these are the angles and devils that are fighting I think the war will be over soon.

Angel:
HP: 17 Prot: 7 Moral:18 MR: 18 Enc:1 Str:13 Att: 11 Def:13

Awe(+4), weapon Flambeau

Devil:
HP: 35 Prot: 8 Moral: 30 MR: 17 Enc: 2 Str: 13 Att: 18 Def: 16


Now the angel has an awesome weapon. No doubt. The flambeau will kill the Devil in one hit ... if the angel can hit, which he won't ( unless fire 9 blessed ). The devil OTOH will also one hit the angle if he hits, which he will.

No wonder the angel has a lower ( but still excellent ) moral, they die all of the time.

The Awe effect is awesome against normal troops but against devils it is almost 100% useless.

To make matters worse there are more devils around since blood is cheaper than gems and soul contracts quite commonly make devils even cheaper than 7 blood!

The problem I have is that I can't see what to give to angels without making them into Ubermenches. If I bump their attack/defence enough to enable them to compete with devils they will whomp normal troops due to their awe effect. If I give them enough prot to protect them from devils, again, they will whomp humans.

Perhaps the way would be to remove the awe and bump their attack/defence. But that also ruins their flavour.

It's difficult. Any ideas?

[Arryn]

The simplest solution is to give them abilities and/or items that are only effective versus "evil" creatures (demons, devils, undead). That way they can fight more effectively against such creatures without being utterly overwhelming against humans.

[atul]

Huzurdaddi said:
Angel:
HP: 17 Prot: 7 Moral:18 MR: 18 Enc:1 Str:13 Att: 11 Def:13

Awe(+4), weapon Flambeau

Devil:
HP: 35 Prot: 8 Moral: 30 MR: 17 Enc: 2 Str: 13 Att: 18 Def: 16

Not to play devil's advocate (eh eh) here, but Flambeau has instrinct attack bonus of 4. So, Angels trying to hit Devils have effective att 15 versus def 16, which isn't that bad. Include the huge damage from multiplication and armour piercing and Angels aren't that much wimps anymore, at least if they get the first hit.

[Truper]

I think it would be nice if Angels got some sort of boost. Anytime I've used them, they've died off remarkably rapidly, without accomplishing much of anything. Perhaps they are just hard to use well, and I haven't found the right tactics/situation. In any case, as it stands, I consider Angelic Host to be a very expensive way to summon a fire mage.

[Soapyfrog]

Isn't the weapons' attack bonus automatically included on the unit stats?

So a naked angel would have Att 7...

But more to the point, why would it be so bad for angels to be really good vs humans?

[Arryn]

Soapyfrog said:
Isn't the weapons' attack bonus automatically included on the unit stats?

Yes, unless it's a special bonus versus a particular creature or thing.

[Endoperez]

No, weapon attack bonus *is not* included in the basic unit stat screen. There is a simple reason for this: multiple weapons. If you right-click the attack stat you will see the attack value of each separate attack, and this rarely is the basic stat of that unit.

Defence value, however, is shown in the stat screen. This is because in DomII the weapon you attack with matters, the one you defend does not.

[Arryn]

Are you sure? I'd've sworn that when I was tweaking the Ashikaga mod some months back that both weapons and armor, and not just armor, got factored in. I may be wrong. I strongly suspect I may be getting senile. (I am over 40, after all.)

[Soapyfrog]

Dont attack values of multiple weapons stack, regardless of the specific weapon being used?

Hmm you may be right though, I never really though about it.

[Zen]

Easiest way to keep the flavor of the Angels and the Devils is to change the Flambeau in length to one more than the trident (You also didn't account for the double attacks of the Devil and the paralytic poison of the tail) and add in a decent about of att. (I'd say 4 is enough).

Thus the Angel will repel (occasionally) a devil thrust, and has a much greater chance to one hit the devil away. This doesn't impact normal troops because it's not the fact that angels can hit normal troops but that normal troops can't hit the Angel.

Also lowering the cost of the Angel spells by 1/3 (35 for Angelic Host) would even them out. (5 Astral per Angel, including the commander).