Surrender Changes - Page 2

Taqwus · #11 January 19th, 2001, 06:09 PM

Ah. I don't build many ships at all, because the ones I do build tend to be very, very powerful and expensive -- and up to the main job already (wiping out all enemies; at the end of the Last game, I'd built no more than maybe 40-odd anti-ship BBs, and probably less than 30-40 other armed ships of any kind. But they worked, and they consumed LOTS of maintenance -- something like 800k minerals/turn for all ships and bases, IIRC.). It really should recognize ship cost or power when considering them for happiness...

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Jims2321 · #12 January 19th, 2001, 07:37 PM

I have to agree with the General up to a point. As humans, we have a inherit trait for self preservation. This trait might, and probably does not exist in every race we might encounter in space. I think that the addition of a line the configuration file/screen to allow surrenders by race or in the game as a whole should be looked at.

Jim Stern

Nyx · #13 January 19th, 2001, 08:00 PM

I still want surrender to mean something other than "My nation ceases to exist." Plenty of wars end in a surrender with both nations continuing to exist but one sacrificing something to the victor. The Gulf War for example, the Six-Days War for another. Russia surrendered to Germany and "only" lost Belorus and the Ukraine. A total surrender should be a rare event, but wars should end on a regular basis.

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Tomgs · #14 January 19th, 2001, 08:36 PM

Nyx you can do that now just ask them to be a protectorate or to be subjugated to you. The terms of surrender are made by the stronger party. The weaker just has to accept or reject it. With the bug to these treaties now this won't work too well but if the bug is fixed just don't ask for total surrender if you don't like it, just ask for one of the other treaties. Now you may have to turn off mega evil empire for this to work. Has anyone had a protectorate declare war on them when the MEE goes off?

dmm · #15 January 19th, 2001, 08:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Taqwus:
Ah. I don't build many ships at all, ....It really should recognize ship cost or power when considering them for happiness...

I don't know if ship cost matters, but I do know that ships will only increase happiness for the system they are in. So, keep your super-ships for the real work, but also make a few cheap escorts in each unhappy system so the civilians can feel protected.

dmm · #16 January 19th, 2001, 08:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Nyx:
I still want surrender to mean something other than "My nation ceases to exist."

Have you tried demanding a tribute, and making a peace treaty part of the tribute? IIRC, that will work.

Nyx · #17 January 19th, 2001, 08:55 PM

quote:
Nyx you can do that now just ask them to be a protectorate or to be subjugated to you.

Oh I know that I can do it, but the AI will never offer such terms when it's beaten and needs to get out of the war. It just keeps getting more and more angry. And it's nowhere near as intuitive to demand a trade in the form of a protectorate treaty in return for peace.

I've often tried demanding protectorate and subjugation treaties from the AI, but they are well over 10xs as likely to accept surrender as those two based on actual Messages sent in the game. I haven't looked at the data files to see how it calculates such things, I just know the effect in gameplay.

If I have glassed two systems and not lost a single ship the AI ought to be begging for mercy, not pissed off and rejecting offers of protection from me.

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dmm · #18 January 19th, 2001, 09:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Nyx:
I've often tried demanding protectorate and subjugation treaties from the AI, but they are well over 10xs as likely to accept surrender as those two based on actual Messages sent in the game.

Sounds like you're doing it as "Request Treaty" rather than "Demand Tribute." Try the latter; I think it works.

Tomgs · #19 January 19th, 2001, 10:06 PM

Also the Mega Evil Empire setting may disallow them from acepting these treaties. They will either not accept them when they kick in or will the next turn declare war on you again because of that setting.

Nyx · #20 January 19th, 2001, 11:04 PM

quote:
Sounds like you're doing it as "Request Treaty" rather than "Demand Tribute." Try the latter; I think it works.

I've tried both methods, and I even tried using the propose trade option where I bribe them into a protectorate treaty. And for the record I've never bothered trying to request anything from anyone once mega evil sets in. The numbers stand, the AI prefers to surrender completely over entering protectorate status regardless of what means I use to offer it.

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