Tien Chi

[Nerfix]

I can feel the Illwinter Dominion expanding...

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Daynarr:
Actually they will suffer less from arrow fend then Man troops, but it WILL help against Tien Chi anyway. At least they will have to engage you in close combat. They mostly rely on MAGIC and they have a lot of choices there. Also, they have troops with Glaive (10 damage, 4 range but attack and defense suffers) to tackle enemy mounted troops and cavalry of there own (heavy cavalry too). Of course if you lack air wizards Tien Chi archers and crosbows are gonna walk all over you.

I suppose you are not speaking of a special bonus long weapons would have against mounted troops? (thats would be interesting, but I can live without it).

They recall me of Man in fact, with their longbowmen early, then switching to air magic when time passes. But perhaps (I hope) this wont be mandatory in doms II to forget about archers after turn 30, as it seems it will be more difficult to be immune to arrows.

Can you remind us how was tweaked storm? Does it allow arrows to be fired?

[Nerfix]

Pocus, i am not a betatester, but i hope i have these rigth:
Yes, Dom II storms will let you to shoot arrows with halved range, if i remember correctly. And Arrow Fend has been "Wardised", I.E same gem cost, no whole batlefield effect.

[ September 29, 2003, 20:46: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Rollo:
Mictlan looks to be geared towards the more exprienced player and is IMO one of the most interesting nations.
The troops are primitive. Literally fighting with sticks and stones. However, they have three different holy tribal warriors that have different abilities. The eagle warrior can fly in combat, the jaguar warrior can shapechange, the sun warrior is the elite fighter (albeit not better armed than your average heavy infantry).
OTOH Mictlan has very powerful priests-mages: The High Priest of the Sun (Fire 2, Blood 3, Priest 4), Moon Priest (Astral 2, Blood 2, Priest 3), Rain Priest (Water 2, Blood 2, Priest 3), Priest King (Nature 2, Blood 2, Priest 3). Additionally two of the commanders can 'recruit' slaves (speak: more cannonfodder for your armies) for free.
Battles usually result in heavy losses, but can be replenished fast. I am sure experienced players can overcome the weak military with some nifty combos from the priests once the research has been done. And of course there will be lots of devils and demons to summon .

An interesting twist to Abysia
I'm not saying that they are not cool. I think that these 3 new races are really great.

Are the mages/priests as costly in doms II than in doms I? The problem is that you would pay an hefty sum for a lone unit which is more versatile true, but often used in a single role (either as a priest, or as a mage). For example Marignon is suffering from this, with Grand Master at 270 gp (6 levels of magery, priest 3), and Anathemant Dragon goes over the roof, with a cost of 360 GP (Abysian priest 4, fire 3), far too costly if you ask me.

Anyway, Abysia is perhaps my prefered race (my first pbem was with them, ouch I learned in the field!), as blood magic is really different from others path, and so .. so ... twisted

[Daynarr]

I know Arrow Fend cost air gems (1 air gem i think). Arrow fend has effect on all your current units (not those you will summon later) and give them 80% air shield, not complete cover. It's very nasty against archers as I found out playing Man against Panganea.

Not sure about storm, as I use mostly heavy troops and don't care much about archers.

[Psitticine]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
Oh, BTW, what does Restless Worshippers give you?

Restless Worshippers is a rather nifty one. Your people are, well, restless. They automatically spread out as pilgrims, causing a more rapid spread of your Dominion. You need to have a Turmoil of at least +1 and spend 50 design points to get it, but it is worth it!

It's maybe a bit too easy to overlook the dominion themes available to everybody when designing a new god, especially when there's a nation-specific theme available, but they add a lot of variety to the game!

[ September 30, 2003, 02:23: Message edited by: Psitticine ]

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Daynarr:
I know Arrow Fend cost air gems (1 air gem i think). Arrow fend has effect on all your current units (not those you will summon later) and give them 80% air shield, not complete cover. It's very nasty against archers as I found out playing Man against Panganea.

Not sure about storm, as I use mostly heavy troops and don't care much about archers.

I'm starting to fear that a nasty doms I compulsive behavior will be back :

* You shall always have air magic capacity with your nation, either natively (random picks are ok)or with air magic on your pretender.

I really fear now that the supremacy of air magic is still there in doms II. We will discuss this in 3 months, but I can bet my skirt that air magic will still be THE magic which must not be left out.

[Daynarr]

You are probably right. I've noticed I make sure that my pretender has at least 1 level in air at the start of the game and not only for precision. Air is really useful for both support and damage and you get more accurate mage to use those things. However I don't think they were trying to nerf air but to empower other elements. Probably the best way to tackle air at the moment is earth. Iron will to improve magic resistance, and all kinds of powerful spells to improve protections of your melee troops. I think earth has sharp weapons spell (not sure if I got the name right), which will make weapons of your troops armor piercing. It helped against Panganea (that and blessing that was giving +4 protection to my sacred troops) even though they used both Arrow Fend and Mass Protection (they out researched me in both areas).

[Endoperez]

In Dom1, air was the most powerful battle magic because ALL lightning damage, which means all air spells, negated all armor. And as air elementals were/are ehtereal, flying, trampling AND have an armor-negating attack, they were/are the most powerful of all the elementals. Weapons of sharpness might let your troops hit the air elementals, but earth magic and the protection it gave did not help against lightning. Water magic was the weakest elemental path, and although it had some nice spells it couldn't challenge others. Fire was very good in battle, but air was very good in battle, outside of battle and while making items.
Fire can deal more damage, that's true, but:
a) it had a ward versus it that didn't need fire magic, air magic was the only way to fight air magic
b) Storm. Fire magic takes more fatique, archers cannot shoot, air magic/elemental/summons gets more powerful
c) Call of the Wind produced cheap patrollers, and few of them doubled the income of given province. And you could use them to get rid of enemy mages' gems. Atleast this is not so potent spell anymore.
d) Staff of Storms, Storm bows(armor negating, str = damage), lightning whips(armor neg. dmg=10), pocket ship, flying ship, air barrel, spirit helmet(1 free lighning bolt/turn)...

Have these changed? And how the other paths have become more powerful? And which paths you need to protect your armies from give element? I already now that wards only affect aobut 25 guys. Is there any spell that gives little protection versus all the elements? Repels elementals? Disables flying? Negates etherealness?

Maybe if the elemental paths could counter each other. Earth versus air, Air versus earth. At the moment, Air DOES negate the protection earth gives, so does earth have any spesific spell to hamper air magic? What about Fire/Water?

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Endoperez:
In Dom1, air was the most powerful battle magic because ALL lightning damage, which means all air spells, negated all armor. And as air elementals were/are ehtereal, flying, trampling AND have an armor-negating attack, they were/are the most powerful of all the elementals. Weapons of sharpness might let your troops hit the air elementals, but earth magic and the protection it gave did not help against lightning. Water magic was the weakest elemental path, and although it had some nice spells it couldn't challenge others. Fire was very good in battle, but air was very good in battle, outside of battle and while making items.
Fire can deal more damage, that's true, but:
a) it had a ward versus it that didn't need fire magic, air magic was the only way to fight air magic
b) Storm. Fire magic takes more fatique, archers cannot shoot, air magic/elemental/summons gets more powerful
c) Call of the Wind produced cheap patrollers, and few of them doubled the income of given province. And you could use them to get rid of enemy mages' gems. Atleast this is not so potent spell anymore.
d) Staff of Storms, Storm bows(armor negating, str = damage), lightning whips(armor neg. dmg=10), pocket ship, flying ship, air barrel, spirit helmet(1 free lighning bolt/turn)...

Have these changed? And how the other paths have become more powerful? And which paths you need to protect your armies from give element? I already now that wards only affect aobut 25 guys. Is there any spell that gives little protection versus all the elements? Repels elementals? Disables flying? Negates etherealness?

Maybe if the elemental paths could counter each other. Earth versus air, Air versus earth. At the moment, Air DOES negate the protection earth gives, so does earth have any spesific spell to hamper air magic? What about Fire/Water?

I do not recall all changes but the changes listed below should answer some of your concerns. All wards that affect other units then the caster now only bestow 50% damage reduction or less, this is stackable with items and natural partial resistances though. Storm penalises missile fire but do not stop it alltogether. Patrolling to increase taxes is no longer a viable long term strategy since increased taxes kills off population. Since there is no more target enemy magic Users fliers have a somewhat reduced efficiency. A new nature and earth spell Gaias blessing bestows partial resistance to all elements and posion on the entire battlefield. All elementals, even lesser cost magic gems. Air elementals have reduced hitpoints.