I have a question about Satyrs

MythicalMino · #1 January 16th, 2004, 08:41 PM

ok, been looking at Pangaea (i have not been able to play for a several weeks...), but anyways, i have been looking at Pangaea....and i have noticed something that has me confused....

Satyrs 1, 2, and 3....

They all 3 cost 10 gold, #2 and #3 both cost 3 resources, #1 costs only 2. They all three have the same hitpoints. #1 and #2 both have 0 protection, whereas #3 has protection of 2. Moral is the same across all three (8), Magic Resistance the same (13). Encumbrance is the same (3), strength is the same (11), Attack is the same (10), Defense is the same in #1 and #2 (12), #3 has Defense of 13. Same precision (10) for all 3 of them. They all have three have stealth and forest survival. The weapons are different though, #1 only has a spear. #2 has spear AND a javelin (i understand, for range), and #3 has spear AND buckler....

Ok, I can see the reason for maybe using Satyr #2 for a range attack (but really, why would you use this? I don't really see the purpose, unless you really have to way to get any type of archers, and the Centaurs (w/ Longbow) are just too expensive...I guess that could be a reason why?).

I can see the purpose in getting Satyr #3....if only for the buckler, giving it two points more protection and 1 point better defense.

Now, what is the purpose of using Satyr #1? Would your resources be that bad that you simply cannot afford 3 resources, so you have to drop to the 2 resource unit? Satyr #1 has nothing on the other 2 Satyrs EXCEPT for resources....everything else is either the same or worse....

So, what circumstances would a player recruit Satyrs #1?

Just wondering, that's all

Saber Cherry · #2 January 16th, 2004, 09:22 PM

There is never any reason to recruit Satyr 1. If they were dropped to 8 gold they would be reasonable. The choice between 2 and 3 and 4 is tough. Berserk is very nice, but Satyrs live by their defense. On the other hand Satyrs have low morale. Probably 4 is better than 3. 2, though, is nice because javelins are much better in Doms II than Doms I. However, indy light infantry with javs are much better than Satyr 2, as they have protection 9 and a shield...

I think satyrs should have natural protection of 2 - not that it would help much, but they are partially covered in goat hide, which is incredibly strong - much tougher than most leather - so nprot 0 does not make much sense.

Jasper · #3 January 16th, 2004, 09:57 PM

The 3 basic 10 gold satyrs all suck. The one with javelins is better than the other two, but I would never build them, except possibly during early expansion where Javelins can be very effective.

The Revelers I'm not sure about; berserk could be nice, but they're so likely to die in one hit it's probably irrelevent. Maybe if they had Javelins I would consider them.

If you want low resource troops with Pangaea, go with the Centaur Warriors. Harpies, War Minotaurs, Hoplites, and Cataphracts are all decent -- although no longer as good as they were in Dom 1.

PvK · #4 January 16th, 2004, 10:01 PM

Sure there is a reason!

Suppose you have 90 resources available - you can build either 30 of Satyr #3, or 45 of Satyr #1, in one turn. So if you want units quickly, you can produce them at 150% the rate of the kind with bucklers. They are probably much more than 67% as effective as a Satyr #3, so you get a lot more combat power, quickly.

PvK

P.S.
Or if you have 2 resources left over, you can get a Satyr #1, instead of nothing.
Or if you have 4 resources left over, you could add two Satyr #1's instead of one Satyr #3.
Cannon fodder can make a big difference in the outcome of a battle.

[ January 16, 2004, 20:04: Message edited by: PvK ]

Saber Cherry · #5 January 16th, 2004, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PvK:
Sure there is a reason!

Suppose you have 90 resources available - you can build either 30 of Satyr #3, or 45 of Satyr #1, in one turn.

Sure, PVK. I bet he's taken Order 3, and just can't find a way to spend all his gold

With low-morale troops I'd rather have 30 with javelins than 45 without javelins... or 30 that have a chance of deflecting incoming projectiles instead of 45 with no chance. Although nobody knows what the chance is. Or was it posted somewhere?

Taqwus · #6 January 16th, 2004, 10:48 PM

Lance absorbers, perhaps? Or fodder for Haunted Forest, Life After Death, Carrion Reanimation, Soul Drain, or the Ankh?

NTJedi · #7 January 16th, 2004, 11:07 PM

Quote:

The 3 basic 10 gold satyrs all suck. The one with javelins is better than the other two, but I would never build them, except possibly during early expansion where Javelins can be very effective.

Yes I agree...
the satyrs do suck.

aldin · #8 January 16th, 2004, 11:10 PM

More patrollers? I dunno, I'm never quite happy unless I've spent every Last resource point

~Aldin

PvK · #9 January 17th, 2004, 12:04 AM

Oftentimes cannon fodder is very useful.

Or, if places in the rear with Hold and Attack, they can arrive when the enemy has a bunch of fatigue, but they are fresh, and so suddenly can compete with better units. Numbers help.

I've even done some good damage with Mictlani slaves (!!) ... when they arrive at just the right time. Actually, I have quite a few elite-2 Mictlani slaves (which still stink worse than Satyrs, but it's interesting). They always serve to at least distract the enemy for a while, and when then usually run away, the survivers end up getting to be experienced.

PvK

aldin · #10 January 17th, 2004, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PvK:
Or, if places in the rear with Hold and Attack, they can arrive when the enemy has a bunch of fatigue, but they are fresh, and so suddenly can compete with better units.

Excellent! Another arrow for the quiver. What a brilliant way to mix things up.

~Aldin

[ January 16, 2004, 22:13: Message edited by: aldin ]