Problems with Intel Point Distribution

Noble713 · #1 January 14th, 2001, 05:31 PM

Hmmm, over the past day or so I've noticed that the Intel Window isn't calculating and using my Intel Points properly. I'm currently bringing in 114,081 Intel Points. My only projects are 3 Counter-Intel III with Repeat Projects on and Divide Evenly off. Counter-Intel III costs 500,000 points to complete. Why oh why did my empire just finish FOUR Counter-Int IIIs in a single turn? This is a serious problem, because if all of your counter-int is finished in a single turn, you get hit hard by the intel projects of your enemies. Has anyone else had this problem?

Daynarr · #2 January 14th, 2001, 09:51 PM

By all means, report this to MM ASAP with your save game. This was happening to me all the time. As a result of that bug, more intel points give you less protection against enemy intel (you finish counter-intel faster and open window for enemy intel more often). And whenever I would finish my counter-intel project, I would finish them in the next turn once more (2 turn window for enemy intel).
I would send this to MM myself, but I didn't play with intel for a while now, and I just don't have any saved games with it.

Mondo · #3 January 15th, 2001, 01:04 AM

That might not be a bug, although it does seem odd. According to the FAQ on Malfador's site, your counter-intel projects well have their points depleted at a rate determined by how much intel someone is using against you (or something to that effect).

It could be that someone is spending a *lot* of points against you, and that it's eating up your counter-intel projects faster than normal. But given the numbers you listed, I'm not sure if that's the case or not. No way to be sure unless you knew how many intel points the other races had available to them.

Derek

Tomgs · #4 January 15th, 2001, 01:40 AM

One Counter Intell operation stops one Intell effort against you then terminates. So even if it says that you have many turns left on the counterintell operation if it succeeds it ends. You should get a message to that affect at the beginning of your next turn so you know to go back and add another counterintell operation. Thats just the way it works its not a bug. Every time the counterintell project completes it either "works" or you spend all the points and nothing happens (when no intell efforts are directed at you for instance). Either way you get a message at the beginning of your next turn telling you the results. If you look at the intell display the turn before the message of completed counterintell operations it will say 0 turns to complete. They have finished but you won't get the message until the beginning of the next turn.

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 14 January 2001).]

Daynarr · #5 January 15th, 2001, 02:09 AM

Yeah, I know. But if you have finished counter-intel there shouldn't be any successful enemy intel project on that turn. Also, this is a bug because you finish 1 set of counter-intel projects and get a message, and then next turn you finish them again, and then get a message again. Also, enemy intel literally bombards you during those turns. The second 'finish' was even happening when I had about 5000 points distributed between counter-intel, which means that I shouldn't have finished the projects (level 3 counter-intel) or I shouldn't get hit by enemy intel. It's a bug all right.

Mephisto · #6 January 15th, 2001, 10:41 AM

It's not a bug the way I understand it.
Daynarr, you are somewhat in an error IMHO. You don't need to finish a project to work. A project runs as long it is not finished and has a chance to stall enemy actions each turn.

You run a counter-project:
Turn 1: 300.000 points left to do
Turn 2: 250.000 points left to do
Enemy sabotage a success. Damn, they slipped by.
Turn 3: The counter-project stalls an enemy project, counter-project finished as it was a success
Turn 4: Repeat project is enabled, counter-project is begun. Luckily, we get another enemy action.
Turn 5: See turn 4. Wau, 3 enemy projects stalled in 5 turns.

Atrocities · #7 January 15th, 2001, 11:09 AM

Ditto on what Mephisto has stated. I could not have put it any simpler.

Intel is as important to your empires survival as being able to defend against enemy fleets.

All I run are counter intel projects when I more than one AI without a treaty. I figure CI is best served in peace time, and what better time for an AI to gather resources from you than during peace time.

I agree that this does not sound like a bug, but is working correctly.

Again, Mephisto's discription is right on the money. IMHO.

Daynarr · #8 January 15th, 2001, 12:26 PM

Well, this was the situation: About 200000 points, running 10 lvl 3 counter-intel projects, 2 offensive intel projects, divide points evenly, repeat projects turned on. There ware no 'slipping' enemy projects coming through while my counter-intel was in progress. When these projects finished, I was getting hit by about 7-8 enemy intel projects. Next turn, although all my counter-intel projects started from beginning Last turn, they would be finished again (2 times in a row). On the same turn I get hit by enemy intel again. After that, my counter projects would be running normally till they get finished again. NO 'slipping' enemy projects while my counter-intel was running because I was having much more intel points then enemy (the strongert one had about 37000 points, and I had contact with about 5 races that time starting from corner).

2 thing are wrong here:

1st- Finishing counter-intel opens a window for enemy intel on that turn. That means that if you have more intel points, you get them finished more often and get hit by enemy intel more often. That is not right IMO.
2nd- Finishing counter-intel projects again next turn is a bug. There were not nearly enough points to finish them all in 1 turn.

Also, this started to happen only after I got a large number of intel points. Before that, it was working like it was supposed or at least it seams so (still happening that 1 turn window).

All this was having no effect on my offensive projects, as they were running normally.

I must note that I haven't seen any points subtracted from my offensive intel projects by enemy counter-intel during their progress as I should have (I was MEE at the time).

Taqwus · #9 January 15th, 2001, 05:47 PM

Daynarr --

If you're getting paranoid about intel -- perhaps a few AIs are pulling multiple projects on you simultaneously with Divide Points Evenly, try adding intelligence sabotage to the mix. It's quite cheap and effective.

In the current game, I often used 2x intel sabotage per major (non-neutral) AI -- and that was normally overkill -- 1x CI 3, and the rest offensive actions like bombing conditions or crew insurrection, with repeat on and divide off.

Scale up or down depending on intel point generation and your apparent defense needs; I was budgeting for four major AIs, each at the time most likely with at least 10-20 decently colonized systems if not twice that, given that I waited many, many turns before turning Really Evil, so they were expected to have decent intel capabilities worthy of 2x sabotage each per turn.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

General Hawkwing · #10 January 15th, 2001, 05:52 PM

It is possible for the AI to have intel work against you even if you have mega intel points and are running CI3 on all 12 slots, with divide evenly and repeat projects turned on. HOW? There are more than 12 AI intel projects finishing against you in that turn or more points spent by the AI against you than you have, I'm not sure which.

Don't forget the "other" CI. Find the AI colonies with intel facilities and clear/take them.