Philosophical Quandry: Piracy

Fyron · #1 July 11th, 2003, 09:48 AM

Here is a philosophical quandry for you all:

Suppose you make a copy of SE4 for a friend. Your friend will play the game for a bit and decide if he likes it or not. If he likes it, he will buy it. If not, he will uninstall it and be done with it. Just him forever playing on this copy is not an option to be considered in this thread.

Yes, it is beyond a shadow of a doubt illegal piracy. I am not asking about legality, but about morality. Is it wrong to do this? Why or why not? Please, if your gut reaction is "pirate SE4 = bad period", please do not post yet. Think about it for a bit. Consider the possibilities. Then post. If your answer is still the same, go ahead and post it now. Just do not post without giving this some real thought. The same also applies to having the gut reaction that it is perfectly ok. Think about that in depth too. Thank you.

And before you ask, no, this is not a situation that has come up in my life. It is a hypothetical situation. I shall not post my opinion on the matter for a while.

This really applies to any game, but I just picked one we all know and love.

[ July 11, 2003, 08:49: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Taera · #2 July 11th, 2003, 09:52 AM

i see pirating as putting into image file or burning to a cd and then distributing it outside. giving it to a friend to try is not pirating because your not copying your game and giving it off to him - your sharing your CD. And your getting it back later.

dogscoff · #3 July 11th, 2003, 10:10 AM

Quote:

If not, he will uninstall it and be done with it. Just him forever playing on this copy is not an option to be considered in this thread.

Well, this is the crucial bit. You can't really guarantee this in real life, so the whole issue becomes hypothetical.

However, even in this hypothetical case,it would still (technically) be morally wrong. Even if you argue that you're doing shrapnel/ malfador a favour by encouraging a new player by means of a limited trial, the right to issue such a trial still rests exclusively with them.

Of course, that's kind of a rigid approach, and it's really not the way ppl do things these days...

Quote:

giving {your game CD} to a friend to try is not pirating because your not copying your game and giving it off to him - your sharing your CD. And your getting it back later.

Except that your friend could easily just install the game and not uninstall it- SE4 doesn't require a CD to run, you know.

BBegemott · #4 July 11th, 2003, 10:32 AM

In general piracy is when you make a profit from others work. If you don't make profit, so what kind of pirate you are?

And now comes the lawer and messes everything up...

rdouglass · #5 July 11th, 2003, 02:59 PM

IMO if the developer (of any software) intends for the user to "try before you buy", they will provide a demo. SEIV has said demo so IMO, the act of "loaning" the game is wrong for both parties; the one asking for the loan and the one doing the loaning. (It would be wrong even if they didn't have a demo.)

Normally EULA state that you don't own the s/w; you just own a license to use it. One solution around the question is you could invite the freind over for a "hot seat" game - then you don't have to worry about breaking the EULA.

Erax · #6 July 11th, 2003, 03:04 PM

Fyron, I have done exactly what you described, twice. In both cases, my friends installed the game and returned the CD, but they haven't played yet. It's been sitting unplayed on their HD's for weeks now.

Why did I do it ? That's just the way our crowd does things. We play all sorts of games - RPGs, boardgames, card games, miniatures games. We trade games with each other, we sell each other our old games, we give them as gifts, we loan them. We don't treat computer games any different.

I didn't think it was, for lack of a better word, 'wrong' when I did it. Reading some of the piracy threads on this forum, I now understand that some people may have a different opinion. All I can say is that I acted within the standards of my RL community, when perhaps I should have questioned some of them.

minipol · #7 July 11th, 2003, 03:13 PM

According to the law it's piracy. Yet, the situation you describe is probably more common than you think. I've gotten some games from friends like this and i must say that most of the time i just don't like it (hey i'm playing SEIV over here, leave me alone) or i buy it.

I read an article here in a magazine this week. If they could reduce software piracy with only a few percent, then it would create around 5000 IT jobs (here in Belgium which is a lot). So it's unbelievable what impact it has. I never realised that before.

If it generates more income for the game makers and producers, i couldn't see the harm in it since then it's kind of promotional stuff. But in real life, it would happen all to often that the receiving party just makes a copy and returns the cd.

Gryphin · #8 July 11th, 2003, 03:20 PM

Fyron,
I note you have not posted your positon on this.

Gryphin · #9 July 11th, 2003, 03:37 PM

Some more thoughts
�The road to Hell is paved with good intentions�
This may seem off topic but:
If you will violate the EULA in an attempt to get a friend to buy a copy what other rules will you break in your life?
Action - Intent (the greater good)
Break the EULA - Sell more copies
Buy a Term Paper - Graduate from Colledge
Cheat on your wife, (instead of ending the marrage)-For the sake of the children
Falsify your expense account � < insert plausible excuse >

You get the picture

geoschmo · #10 July 11th, 2003, 03:37 PM

Absolutly is wrong. Whether or not it's enough of a violation to warrant some kind of legal ramifications is something for the lawyers to dicker over. But I am fully 100% confident in saying it's absolutly morally wrong. It's not even a valid topic for dicsussion.

To loan something to a friend you have to own it. You don't own the copy you made. The purchase of your copy doesn't give you the right to make copies of it.

Loser was right on when he said the try before you buy is the purpose of the demo. If you can't see someting you like in the game in 100 turns of the demo, you won't buy it.

So Fyron, what sort of car do you drive? Maybe my friend is thinking of buying one. I will "borrow" yours without permission and let him drive it around for a bit. You don't like that?

So it's not a perfect analogy since you aren't selling your car. What if you owned a car dealership? Would you be ok with people taking the cars off the lot without asking (I'm not talking about test drives here.} and trying them before buying them? Some of those people might end up buying afterall. You don't want to upset the customer now.

No, you have no moral right to decide for Malfador the best way for them to get new customers. That is their decision. If you don't like the way they do it make your own game and release it shareware.

So legally it may be a grey area since you aren't profiting from it. But it's not even an issue for discussion morally. It's wrong, no question about it.

Geoschmo