Starting tactics - Page 6

DavidG · #51 December 2nd, 2003, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by primitive:

My result (tested it thrice on different maps): ---- Out of minerals at turn 8 -----

It's funny how often this crucial little problem gets overlooked in all the theoretical models.

spoon · #52 December 2nd, 2003, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidG:

quote:
Originally posted by primitive:

My result (tested it thrice on different maps): ---- Out of minerals at turn 8 -----

It's funny how often this crucial little problem gets overlooked in all the theoretical models.

Running out of minerals is a testament to how well it works

Atrocities · #53 December 2nd, 2003, 04:17 AM

You guys who crunch the numbers make my brain hurt!

Fyron · #54 December 2nd, 2003, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidG:

quote:
Originally posted by primitive:

My result (tested it thrice on different maps): ---- Out of minerals at turn 8 -----

It's funny how often this crucial little problem gets overlooked in all the theoretical models.

I don't think anyone posted theoretical models here, but practical models that had been tested in-game before.

Of course, not all of the factors have been mentioned.

[ December 02, 2003, 02:32: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

primitive · #55 December 2nd, 2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spoon:
I usually play on Good start, so I think that might make the difference - usually gives me enough time to stabalize and establish other mining colonies.

Looks like we have been comparing apples with oranges here

Parasite · #56 December 2nd, 2003, 06:12 PM

I have used a MMSY strategy (Modified Moon). It seemed to work well. I took over a game and was interduced to the BSY-S. I tried it and found it did have several weaknesses. (one was the lack of metals) Also building BSY happened in the same hex. Later you can build 10 colony ships in one turn

, but they are built on the home world

. It means they must go farther and farther to get to a planet. To be fair you should also count this maintanance as well.

I did like the BSY idea though and am testing a min/maxed empire E-building a BSY in one turn. Have the HW build two, then a colony ship, then go off EBuild. The BS then Ebuild 3 colony ships turns 4,7,11 and 5,8,12. When they are done and slowly building the next colony ship, first planets can be coming on line to continue more along the lines of the MMBY-S. This gets me 2 colony ships on turn 4 (and an extra base) while before I had one ship t2 and one t4. The next turn would bypass the Old way and the homeworld would be starting to recover to get ready for the first war.

What do you think?

[ December 02, 2003, 16:14: Message edited by: Parasite ]

Suicide Junkie · #57 December 2nd, 2003, 11:14 PM

The way I usually play it is to build one BSY then go with colony ships and scouts as needed to find nice planets.
The BSY E-builds 4 friends, and they all start making whatever is needed.

Its good enough for me, and provides a solid industrial base immediately. Any planet with a spaceyard will get 3 BSYs to help out eventually.

Fyron · #58 December 2nd, 2003, 11:16 PM

You only hit a lack of minerals if you overextend yourself on the BSYs, do not take a good minerals bonus at racial setup, and find no place for even a few mineral miners on colonies. The third condition is extremeley rare.

primitive · #59 December 3rd, 2003, 01:42 AM

Parasite
Interesting twist. Should be easilly done without running into any mineral problems.

If I have understood your model correctly:
Compared with my favorite MSY-model where HW only builds 1 turns colonizers on EB for the first year (11 turns), this new model have 1 less colonizers built at turn 11. Your model also have the colonizers built on average 2 turns later so your colonies would be a little less advanced. You have 2 useless (on slow) BSY's but full capacity on HW and you would/could have your first moon yard coming on line.

My model would have no BSY's, a HW on slow, but 2 moon yards ready and the third almost done. Also my first moon yard would normally have produced a colonizer by now making it 2 less for your model. I would be more spread out due to the 2 turns earlier colonizers, have a bit more facilities but a bit less construction capacity for a few turns (In most cases only the difference between HW with bonuses + 2 BSY's on slow and a moon yard + HW on slow).

The little trick with turning the HW off EB early sure is different. Something like that would certainly be worth trying if the starting position don't give the option of (enough) moon yards

Karibu · #60 December 3rd, 2003, 04:47 PM

I made a little test. I made a race with +20% mineral mining bonus, 3000 racial points, default settings on galaxy.

Test 1:
Build 5 BSY (� 2 turns) at your home planet. Then every BSY starts making colonyships (� 5 turns on BSY). On turn 15, I had 6 planets, 4 colonyships on route and no minerals whatsoever. My mineral consumption was far too great and I had to shut down my BSY's. Upkeep costs too much.

Test2:
Build 2 BSY (� 2 turns) at your home planet and then start building colonyships (� 2 turns in planet). Then every BSY starts making colonyships (� 5 turns in BSY). On turn 15 I had 8 planets, 2 colonyships on route and resource consumption not too big. I can build on every planet.

Conclusion: Generally at first 2 BSY's on home planet is enough. Later build more if you like. And this is with mineral mining bonus. With no bonus at all, build only 1 BSY at start.

Prove me wrong.