Nagas and other "lost" pretenders

[Pocus]

Message read, and point taken Psitticine.

[Gandalf Parker]

I know Im jumping in late but I want to make a comment on the ORIGINAL post in this thread. Those from the newsGroups know that Im big on taking whatever seems to be "worthless" in the game and trying hard to find a reason for it.

Lord of Night I wont even discuss in this post since I find it way too useful as a pretender.

Dragons have their pros and cons but one of the things I havent seen yet is an advantage which was obviously planned into them. Their human forms appear to be exactly like other human forms in the game. There are a variety of attacks (such as assassins) where long and careful planning would amount to a big surprise when the wimpy human with only magic to worry about does a form change into a massive winged breathing mosnter.

I do feel that dragons have areas which could stand some upgrading. For one thing I dont like that magic items on the human form will dissapear completely during a change (how about dumping them into the Lab if space is available). Some natural abilitys sticking around would be a big help also, such as the blue dragon still being able to enter the water.

There are other pretenders which can stand some tweaking although most suggestions I see seem directed in the same direction such as making combat or search prtenders out of them. Moving that direction would eventually make them all the same. Id like to see more experimentation and variety of fixes to the lesser chosen ones in order to have MORE choices of strategy rather than less.

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
Lord of Night I wont even discuss in this post since I find it way too useful as a pretender.

Didn't you make the thread that ranked all pretenders in Dominions I at the usenet Groups?

Anyway, i remember that LoN was ranked pretty poor.

[ywl]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
In Dominions I there is some Pretenders that just aren't wortwhile. Lord of the Nigth, Mother of Lions, Dragons and (from what i have read) Nagas, and "Rainbow Mages" to some extent. What have you done to make these Pretenders worthwhile.
I am also concerned that will the RB Mages become even less usefull, even if their cost has been reduced, because bless effect is now dependant on your starting magic, and it requires minium 4 to get an effect from a magic path.

Dragons of Dom 1 are perfectly fine in their current form and cost.

I think that the trick is to use them in dragon form during early expansion and mid-game. A dragon staying far back, with the "Hold and Attack Commander" can take out indies far better than a Wyrm. You can even enhance some of them with spells ("Regeneration", "Fireshield") during the first two turns before enemies arrive. Later in the game, he will be a low level mages giving you access to otherwise an unaccessible path, or an expensible physical basher.

Green Dragon is the best for because a slightly boost up Green Dragon can cast "Lamia Queen" and other Nature summoning spells, giving you even more access to other schools. Red and Blue Dragons are not as nice as their spells are mostly useful only in combat. If dominion strength is not too important, a boost up Green Dragon will be about 80 to 100 points, comparable to a Balrog and not significanlty more expensive than a raw Wyrm.

Nagas are *slightly* too expensive. If the cost is about 25 to 50 points lower, a Golden Naga can be reasonably used as a high-hitpoint rainbow mage. Her large hitpoints can help her survive a battle. The normal Naga is (IMHO) not particular useful because Nature magic is non-offensive in battle. Her large hitpoint won't be much a bonus over your normal Arch-druids.

Lord of the Night is usable for Ermor, who has numerous nation points to waste . His stealth can give you some very interesting tactics. But since Ermor is in general hard to play, I don't know how well he can be played.

But I guess, the problem for most other pretenders is more because the MP game has been optimized to the point that only the best pretenders are now being used. As in the this stage, the game mechanisms and dynamics favor towards early expansion, everybody needs a cheap (enough) pretender to stay in the game.

[Kristoffer O]

Dragons have been remade more than once. In Dom II a dragon in dragon shape has -2 in all magic skills. Thus dragons can cast spells, enter water (if blue) and will tend to have one high magic skill (several low level skills would not be usable in dragon shape). This fits their nature.

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Dragons have been remade more than once. In Dom II a dragon in dragon shape has -2 in all magic skills. Thus dragons can cast spells, enter water (if blue) and will tend to have one high magic skill (several low level skills would not be usable in dragon shape). This fits their nature.

YES!
That is what i wanted to hear!

[Gandalf Parker]

Lord of the Night is usable for Ermor, who has numerous nation points to waste . His stealth can give you some very interesting tactics. But since Ermor is in general hard to play, I don't know how well he can be played.

I use LoN quite abit for many races. His ability to create demonic sneaky flyers is a big boost. I especially liked using him with Pangaea. Having a deity who was flying-sneaky, with a flying-sneaky (demons and harpies) was very handy for a race who could move a sneaky army long distances. Nice for quick support.

In fact I used him for just about any race that didnt have an overabundance of units with priest powers (they tended to dispell my own units in combat)

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Dragons have been remade more than once. In Dom II a dragon in dragon shape has -2 in all magic skills. Thus dragons can cast spells, enter water (if blue) and will tend to have one high magic skill (several low level skills would not be usable in dragon shape). This fits their nature.

Great! That combined with their latest Dom 1 price of 50 IMHO might make them useable, although the price still isn't cheap when you factor in the Dominion of 1 (especially now that Dominion Strength can exceed 10).

The funny thing is that I find their transformation ability to be mostly a weakness. I would far rather have a dragon that kept his magical power, but couldn't transform.

[Daynarr]

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Dragons have been remade more than once. In Dom II a dragon in dragon shape has -2 in all magic skills. Thus dragons can cast spells, enter water (if blue) and will tend to have one high magic skill (several low level skills would not be usable in dragon shape). This fits their nature.

Great! That combined with their latest Dom 1 price of 50 IMHO might make them useable, although the price still isn't cheap when you factor in the Dominion of 1 (especially now that Dominion Strength can exceed 10).

The funny thing is that I find their transformation ability to be mostly a weakness. I would far rather have a dragon that kept his magical power, but couldn't transform.

---

Don't forget special blessing bonuses you receive at levels 4 and 9. If you want to boost your blessings, dragons are a good and cheap way to go. IMHO it makes them even more valuable (Nagas as well).

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Dragons have been remade more than once. In Dom II a dragon in dragon shape has -2 in all magic skills. Thus dragons can cast spells, enter water (if blue) and will tend to have one high magic skill (several low level skills would not be usable in dragon shape). This fits their nature.

Great! That combined with their latest Dom 1 price of 50 IMHO might make them useable, although the price still isn't cheap when you factor in the Dominion of 1 (especially now that Dominion Strength can exceed 10).

The funny thing is that I find their transformation ability to be mostly a weakness. I would far rather have a dragon that kept his magical power, but couldn't transform.

---

Eh, I think there must have been a misunderstaning somewhere. If you and everyone else is referring to what I said earlier about dominion strength exceeding ten, my correction was intended to state that I had it wrong, but that I wasnt sure if blood sacrifice or fire of the faith could bring it over ten. I haven't checked it out but my guess would be that they can not do this.

So as far as I know dominion strength is limited to 10.

[ October 07, 2003, 23:26: Message edited by: johan osterman ]