A possible path to better AI

[LeTharg]

Competent challenging AI. It makes games fun to play solo and it is rare and difficult. There is a thread asking how many people play with the AI bonus set to max. There are a number of people who manage to defeat the AI even with a 5X bonus. My problem with playing at that level is that I feel like I’m still playing a really stupid opponent—just one with a very large stick. As a result I quickly quit playing solo (after three games) and have taken up PBEM. But I would like to be able to play competent challenging AI.

There is a suggestion I would like to make on how to get good AI. It may not be possible with SEIV but it might be possible with SEV. I would like to see user developed AI. I realize that we have that to some degree now but the fact that people are playing and defeating even the user mods at 5X bonus mean that the tools for modding the AI are insufficient.

If the AI code itself were modularized and replaceable, then Users could develop their own AI. If races could specify which AI to use, that is, if multiple AI modules could be used in one game, then races could have radically different personalities and styles. AI could compete with AI. Players would select their Favorites.

While I realize that this would mean work for MM, it would have advantages as well. MM could be satisfied with developing barely competent AI and leave the improvements to the user community. After reading this board for awhile, I am certain that there are a number of people with the skills and willingness to develop AI code. In fact, some of you might get more satisfaction from that activity than from playing. Another advantage for MM would be a better and more fun game. A third advantage might be a greater recognition of how hard good AI in a complex environment like SE really is.

We might even adopt an open software model for some AI and have the whole community contribute to it.

Anyway, I sure would like to give it a shot myself.

[jimbob55]

quote:

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Originally posted by LeTharg:
MM could be satisfied with developing barely competent AI and leave the improvements to the user community.

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LoL. Tact and diplomacy.......

The most appealing feature of SE4 modding is that anyone can do it. The txt format of the data files means everyone has access to a development kit. The layout of the files is designed to help people who have no programming experience make modifications. To start getting into AI modules + code would increase the entry level for modding.

Provided MM continues to provide the excellent level of support + improvement of the game it may be possible to make the AI easier to script and modify in SE4.

All that is needed is that someone (or group of people) comes up with a definition of exactly what behavior they want from the AI and how that could be accomplished using the current files format.
Examples of new values off the top of my head : Honour / loytalty as a modifier to treaty changes (comm mimic should have a chance to fail).
Something to assist the AI in taking worlds with troops. Something to stop the AI glassing planets that were captured from it.

This forum is visited regularly by an audience of creative and polite folks, I'm sure that something could be hammered together. Once eveyone had either added their 2 cents or provided constructive criticism it would probably be worth sending it to shrapnel or MM to look at.
So, let's boldly brainstorm some variables to generate an evil genius AI we would fear.

[This message has been edited by jimbob55 (edited 20 May 2001).]

[Will]

http://www.silicmdr.com

Ran into a game here a while ago, Solar Vengeance. I dropped the game pretty quickly since I just can't move that fast, and I can't handle a real-time type of game like that. However, I was interested to see what they did for the game AI. The AI works using "Brain" files, which are basically like SEIV AI text files, except they're made more like an actual scripting language (plus it takes on many of the coding that would normally be in the game). Something like this would definitely have to wait for SEV, since I doubt Aaron would want to scrap the current AI, after all the tweaking of the game-side code.

[LeTharg]

I'm going to push this to the front again (Last time) because of the "expensive coaster" thread.

I would like to make a few points:

1. MM is a company of limited resources selling into a niche market. The best way to make the game really world-class is to leverage the skills of the user community.

2. I don't think externalized AI and text-based mods are incompatible. Rather I think the AI should recognize all the fields now in use (and add more). Paramaterized code is good. Thus all the existing mods would still work--just better.

3. I think adding a scripting language would be too much work for MM even with the many scripting systems available. C++ is a fine scripting language familiar to many of the Users; it has the advantage of speed and flexibility.

[capnq]

I rather like the idea from another thread of an open source AI module. If people started working on it now, it might be functional in time to adapt it to SE V.

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Cap'n Q


The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft