Question about infantry assaulting tanks

[Mustang]

When an infantry unit assaults a tank with a satchel charge, what is that supposed to represent? Somebody charging toward a tank and trying to pile explosives on it before he gets run over or the tank moves away? Even if you get someone brave enough to do this, and it would take a Medal of Honor recipient, the chance of success is almost zero. Same thing versus enemy infantry- you can't just charge up to an enemy soldier, put a bomb on him, run away, and detonate it. So is that what the game is representing by allowing infantry to assault with satchel charges?

And also about all the other forms of assaulting tanks. Whenever the enemy assaults the front armor of my heavy tanks, like M1s, they seem to kill it. How could an RPG penetrate the front armor of an Abrams? What does tank assault represent in the game?

[Mobhack]

infantry assault is troops getting close to the AFV - and may be attacks on the engine deck, tracks, or dropping a grenade inside the hatch etc.

Infantry assault is usually on side or top armour - never the front. Open topped AFV are horribly vulnerable to being swarmed.

Infantry assault is far more effective if the infantry are unseen by the enemy before the assault (AT ambush), highly skilled, low supression, and if the infantry have less distance to travel to the AFV, and if they have some form of AT weapon (hand grenades will do for very light or open top armour).

cheers
Andy

[Cameronius]

You can throw a satchel charge 5-10m onto the deck of a tank, into a group of infantry, or into a bunker or building. Set the fuse for 5 seconds or so and [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Bomb.gif[/img] .

[Marek_Tucan]

The infantry assault represents exactly the situation with the Tiger in Saving Pvt. Ryan, ie a bunch of guys with balls swarming the tank and trying to make it inoperable with whatever they have. Molotof into engine ventilator, grenade down the open hatch, RPG on the rear deck, satchel into tracks...

[Mobhack]

In Abysinnia in the 30's, some tribesmen had problems with an Italian tankette, being only armed with spears and shields.

So they swarmed it in numbers, heaved it onto its back manually, and waited...

Andy

[Mustang]

Hahaha! Never heard of that before. I guess you can't do that with anything modern larger than a Humvee, though.

Still, I don't see how they could do it. If infantry get within 20 yards of a tank they are going to get MOWED DOWN by COAX and, if it isn't buttoned, all the other MGs. Maybe the infantry could take casualties also. But it seems to me like, for the most part, this kind of tank assault takes place only in movies and very rarely in real life.

[Cameronius]

This type of close assault on an armoured vehicle takes place all the time in today's battlefeilds. In Chechnya, Afganistan and Iraq. Light armour is especially vulnerable. Insurgents tactics against tanks are the same as would be use by regulars. Choice of good terrain to isolate the vehicle is key. Built up areas are ideal. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Bomb.gif[/img]

[Mobhack]

When you get close to an AFV (15-20 yards) you are often inside the depression arc of the co-ax, and the vision apparatus is often blind at these short ranges as well. Get behind the turret and nothing is visible.

Close assault on a tank is reasonably common, and easy to do when the tank is isolated from friendly infantry, or its companion cannot hose it down with MG fire (restricted terrain say) or it has no nearby companion to delouse it.

Once close to a tank - the running gear is easily disabled by explosive charges, or e.g ramming a decent sized plank into it. Once the infantry are on top of an AFV - then it is easy to destroy vision devices, with a crowbar, or by placing mud over them, and these days - a can of spray paint would do the trick. Vehicle is then blind - and probably immobilised. (Radio antenna can be ripped off too, rendering it incommunicado).

UK home guard manuals AFAIR recommended blinding the tank with a sheet or blanket, whie ramming a good sized wood or steel bar into the running gear, plus hand grenades etc in there too.

A UK bar mine rammed directly into the track is a good way of stopping any MBT. Once stopped - it can be dealt with.

(In Italy in WW2 everyone soon learned to avoid vineyards, as these were wired together with the equivalent of piano wire - which entwined itself into the running gear of AFV and soon locked it solid in a ball of wire.)

Assaulting Russian armour was reasonably common for the Germans - they gave a "tank assault" badge for this, which was not awarded for e.g. taking one out with panzerfaust. Technique was to get onto the rear deck, and place a hand grenade bundle or mine on top of the engine deck to disable the tank (blow in the deck, or stall/kill the engine with overpressure). If enemy tank was a KV - best placed under the turret overhang. (Some versions of KV had a rear turret MG but this did not fully cover the deck in that close).

Many German troops had the badge for 10+ tanks destroyed by assault.

When you get used to the fact that tanks are quite vulnerable to the correct techniques - "tank panic" amongst infantry is rare.

Tanks are not airtight - so another technique would be to use smoke grenades (esp WP which gives noxious fumes) and apply to an air intake (while it blinds the tank as well) - the noxious fumes would be drawn into the AFV and choke the crew. Japan issued a glass grenade with a poisonous substance for this purpose. Modern MBT you say are "overpressurised" for NBC - the air has to come in some way, and processing WP is not part of the filteration systems job <G!>. Oh - and the NBC sytem reqires you to close down, thus being more likely not to spot the grunts till they are on top of the tank..

If the tank is open - shoot the commander as you mount the tank, hopefully leaving him blocking the open hatch, and then stuff grenades down into the tank. If closed down - crew may not have latched the hatch, try to open one and if you succeed, post a few hand grenades into it, or spray interior with small arms fire.

Unsupported tanks are horribly vulnerable to infantry close in, even with improvised weaponry. Running gear and vision devices (glass or in the old days, simple slits) are the prime target if you cannot defeat the armour. If you have time (it was realy isolated or you have killed its companions), even if you have only detracked it, blinded it and ripped off the antennas, then you can now build a fire under the thing and cook the crew out - it may even have external fuel cells to help this task .

Even if the assault does not disable or kill the AFV - it is rather likely to persuade it to get out of Dodge, ASAP!

Tanks/AFV need supporting infantry in close if they are to survive, and should let the riflemen lead the way.

Cheers
Andy

[Listy]

Another story form the Italians Vs african stable:

One guy got on-top of an Italian tankette, but was only armed with his sword.
He yelled in italian for the crew to open up, and they did. I'm sure you can imagine the rest.

Even a locked down tank is easy to get into. All you need is a spanner, and about 10 seconds. Fun fact #1: you can reach the internal comander's hatch release on a cheiftain, from the outside, I know I've done it. The down side is your face is about 2 inches away from the barrel of his coupla GPMG...

[narwan]

I read a story on a forum about an Italian or Rumanian officer (mountain troops I think it was) who attacked a russian tank on the east front with a hammer, lacking any AT weapons. He started banging on the MG barrels until they were bend out of shape... not sure if it is a true story, but it's inventive at least!