What role does a shield play?

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Jader:
Don't you think it's because katana is a two handed sword...

That would be a No-Dachi, IIRC. A Katana is easily useable in one hand (better reach, from horseback, etc.); it's two handed use is a matter of style.

Actually they used shields called "tate" as protection from arrows or spears. And sometimes they used a "sode" (the piece of armor worn on the shoulder) which samurai could untie and use like buckler for deflecting arrows.

I'm having a hard time finding a reference to a "Tate" outside of Anime, no doubt because it also seems to be a common English name.

Perhaps you could provide a link or source? I'd dearly love to see a picture!

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Arralen:
... but they didn't have that much use for shields because they didn't have massed archers/slingers like all armies west of them had.

Army lists give them high proportions of Longbow armed Samurai in the early Samurai period. The lack of shields, given influence from China, is very odd. Explanations could include their armour being exceptionally effective against missile, the bow commonly used being not as good as it is generally rated, and that the focus on individual combat made shields less effective as they require a degree of discipline and formation tog et the full benifit.

Cheers

Keir

[PvK]

Yes the early main weapon was the bow, not the katana, and heavy use of bows continued, perhaps moreso than in many western ancient/medieval armies. Late medieval Japanese armor does seem to have been relatively effective against arrows, judging from the number of arrows frequently shown sticking out of still-fighting samurai in art (and samurai films such as the Last scene of Throne of Blood). Post-gunpowder, some breastplates were tested to be sure they were proof against muskets, though I think they still were only a part of the torso coverage, with plenty of places still to get hurt.

Later samurai equipped for battle would also tend to carry a naginata as the first weapon, which is a two-hander.

Although they did have some shields, perhaps like their sword style, they tended to emphasize avoiding arrow hits, rather than blocking them.

PvK

[Jader]

Now, as I think about it, "tate" seams just means "shield" in japanese It's hard to find any evidenve of it's existence indeed. Look at this:
http://cis.k.hosei.ac.jp/~F-rep/Haniwa_EGUK2002.pdf

I'm not convinced about katana - it's described as "one and half handed" (like broad sword) and IMO it was mostly used with both hands. Look at today's martial arts like kendo - main arm moves the sword and the hand of the secondary drives it.
One handed use don't let for finese technique (with such heavy weapon) and have sense only with second blade for parrying (and then there is no need for shield).

[Jasper]

Originally posted by PvK:
Late medieval Japanese armor does seem to have been relatively effective against arrows, judging from the number of arrows frequently shown sticking out of still-fighting samurai in art (and samurai films such as the Last scene of Throne of Blood).

Good point. I'd always assumed they were able to take so many arrows because of their funky poses and crazy expressions.

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Jader:
I'm not convinced about katana - it's described as "one and half handed" (like broad sword) and IMO it was mostly used with both hands. Look at today's martial arts like kendo - main arm moves the sword and the hand of the secondary drives it.
One handed use don't let for finese technique (with such heavy weapon) and have sense only with second blade for parrying (and then there is no need for shield).

One handed use is still taught, even though primary duelling (e.g. kendo) usage is 2 handed. You do get extra reach one handed, can wield another weapon in the off hand (an uncommon but real style, especially if outnumbered), and one handed obviously makes more sense on horseback.

Such blades are nicely balanced, and easier to use one handed than European Hand and a Half Sword (which is a Bastard Sword, not a Broad Sword).

[Jader]

Originally posted by Jasper:
One handed use is still taught, even though primary duelling (e.g. kendo) usage is 2 handed. You do get extra reach one handed, can wield another weapon in the off hand (an uncommon but real style, especially if outnumbered), and one handed obviously makes more sense on horseback.

Yes, I agree. But these doesn't encurage them to use shields

Such blades are nicely balanced, and easier to use one handed than European Hand and a Half Sword

Obviously, but aren't they generally havyier? (I'm not sure about this).

(which is a Bastard Sword, not a Broad Sword).

Of course, what I was thinking about? To much Neverwinter...