Orc Mod concept - feedback required

[tinkthank]

I think the original poster has "Warcraft III" in mind, the "War Machine (Catapult with flaming rocks)" being the hint for me.
For those who don't know it, Blizzard made a very believable nation of proud, tundra-crossing shamen and proud, strong warriors which are somehow reminiscent of a cross between "native american" "Indians" and Mongolian hordes (WIII
orcs refer to themselves as "The Horde").
So for this reason, Blitz, the majority here is not going to understand your feel for this nation, since the majority here dislikes WarcraftIII or has never played it. (I thought it was an excellent and well-crafted game, I just dont like RTSs.)

- I like your point with a siege engine. Could be tough to do. It would be a lifeless construct capital-only requiring huge resources and a siege bonus like the Ulmian engineer.

- I think fire and blood should be strongish paths, with perhaps some foreign death and earth.

- some form of berserking should be in for one type of troop, perhaps coupled with this idea: Those units that go berserk have a chance of entering a state of blind rage, where they simply attack the nearest unit for a certain amount of time (I think the spell is called: "Rage"?); this could be a sort of berserker that fits into the theme. Or perhaps they have the "Gone Berserk" (a la wolf pelt) attribute always on?

Just some thoughts.
Good luck!

[Cheezeninja]

I think pangea makes a wonderful base template for an orc conVersion. Simply change the pan into some sort of orc warlord and change maenads into orc grunts, you have a bunch of fodder flocking to the powerful orcs. My take on orcs is more the D&D/ Warhammer take, obviously based on tolkien but a little beefier, and a little stoopider. Lots of Musclebound idiots with low morale and terrible equipment, but ferocious in close combat.

[Blitz]

I wasn't aware that I had to adhere to a Tolkien-esque code

I guess my concept of orcs is a meld of Warhammer, Warcraft, and AD&D... I never really thought about it. I always figured orcs as shorter, stronger, stupider, green humans =).

Really I was looking for balance opinions... I believe only C'tis Desert Tombs have both holy and unholy priests, and that's a 200 point pick.

Also, I wasn't sure how to mod a flaming catapult rock... I figured using the giant boulder-thrower's missile weapon with a flaming arrows flag. I assume this will work, but I haven't gotten to that point yet. I'm still struggling to come up with some decent looking sprites for the units. I'm somewhat artisticly challenged in that area.

- I think fire and blood should be strongish paths, with perhaps some foreign death and earth.

Unfortunately this would make them play a lot like Abyssa. I'd think giving them easy access to devils through blood magic might be a little unbalancing as well. Devils coupled with heavy infantry might be a little much when you throw in skeleton generators. As it stands, they only really look to be able to cast cross breeding, and would rely on their pretender for any other blood rituals.

The random pick on the magus is meant to be a sorcery slot, limiting them to earth/sorcery... not unlike the giants with their water/sorcery paths.

[ May 01, 2004, 20:42: Message edited by: Blitz ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Blitz:
Really I was looking for balance opinions... I believe only C'tis Desert Tombs have both holy and unholy priests, and that's a 200 point pick.

CW Pan also has both holy and unholy priests, although their holy priests are nowhere near the Lizard Kings.

Depends on whether or not you are doing the "Good Orc in a Bad World" or a "Bad Orc in a Good World".

I've alwayd liked it when books and games humanize the classic villans, especially when villans are portrayed as simply doing what they need to and not some insidious plot of 'evil'.

I would use Nature, Death and Blood and leave out fire.

You might also want to mash together a few of your magical commanders. And only have a few different magic commanders, I would assume the Shamans and Witch Doctors wouldn't let magic be too prevelant in order to maintain control.

[PDF]

Orcs without Fire ? We could also try Elves without Air...
But having "strong" orcs will just replicate Abysia That's why I think that even if noone *has* to make Tolkienesque Orcs, it'll be a much more interesting choice than creating a Abysian theme with some Death or Nature thrown in

In my mind Orcs should be rather weak (normal strength, bad morale, second-rate equipment), but cheap, somewhat sturdy (maybe 11-12 hp, maybe recuperation).
Elites (Uruk Hai) could be on par with Abysians. Additionnaly the nation could recruit Wolf rider cavalry and Trolls...
Their magic paths should rather be Fire and Earth (Isengard..), maybe a little Astral, with Death shamans as priests.

To make the race interesting bigger beasts

[Blitz]

I would use Nature, Death and Blood and leave out fire.

That's basicly where they stand, with a splash of earth and astral.

The Shaman (SDHH) is meant to be a "bad" Version of the C'tis shamen, able to cast nether bolt and other bad things.

My Witchdoctor (BNHH) concept was a "mad scientist" role, gathering blood slaves and crossbreeding. Making them unholy priests might not be a bad idea.

The Necromancer (DDUUUU) is self-explanitory.

The Magus is the one I'm not totally happy with. I want to give the orcs SOME high-end magic ability, but not one that will break the race. Perhaps earth isn't the best choice as an elemental school. Obviously Blood/Fire would give us the devil problem, and mirror Marignon/Abyssa. The seeress dosen't really fit the theme either, so maybe scrap her and add another melee hero.

I'll take suggestions on the top-end magic hero. Something with fire would probably work.

Elites (Uruk Hai) could be on par with Abysians. Additionnaly the nation could recruit Wolf rider cavalry and Trolls...
Their magic paths should rather be Fire and Earth (Isengard..), maybe a little Astral, with Death shamans as priests.

What are Uruk Hai? I like the name, no idea where it comes from. As for cavalry and trolls, I've pretty much decided to make them strong melee fighters as is, adding even mediocre flankers might be a bit much. Trolls would definately fit the concept. I definately considered them (and their troll king hero) for the mod, but decided against it. What I did consider was an expensive troll unit with either a fear or standard aura that players could mix into the army. I'd like to discourage troll-massing and keep with the orc theme

[ May 01, 2004, 22:27: Message edited by: Blitz ]