Any news on DOM-III

[Zen]

FrankTrollman said:
Indeed, the best that series ever got was Alpha Centauri (which was made by a different company, but the same people, so it's part of the series). Brian Reynolds is doing Rise of Nations, which is real time, and Civ IV promises to still not actually have the original staff that made Civ II so astoundingly awesome.

Which incidentally the new RoN looks awesome. But I have higher hopes for Civ4 simply due to the fact that they have made advancements and recognized their mistakes and in Civ4 rectifies most of them AFAIK. I still don't think it's an accurate comparison to put Dominions in the same caliber of game as one that has a budget in the millions. I love Dominions and will love Dominions 3, but like with any other game there are things which need improvement and lessens the game experience. (Such examples might be UI, micromanagment, etc.) This may vary from person to person what people feel should always be included in every game, whether it be graphics, UI, etc.

Seriously, other than Dominions III, what turn-based strategy would you actually play with and against your friends? My Crystal Sphere doesn't see all that far into the future, but I'm just not seeing anything else even being offered that is going to be a decent TBS multiplayer game. This is a genre that has been completely lost to the Playstation Generation.

Laser Squad Nemesis, Age of Wonders:SM (potentially Spartan Total War) comes immediately to mind. While I agree the genre is now mostly a niche genre, European developers continue to churn out unhyped nuggets of gaming goodness.

This doesn't mean that Dominions 3 won't be a fantastic game, but putting it up against the kind of competition and resources of a huge (non-indy) brand is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Dominions might be superior in every aspect due to cost/effort ratio (being able to do everything it does well with only X investment of time/programming) but it doesn't erase the fact that unless Sweden changes their tax laws or Dominions 3 sells millions of units that you can't compare it to Civ4 realistically.

[Reverend Zombie]

Zen said:
Dominions might be superior in every aspect due to cost/effort ratio (being able to do everything it does well with only X investment of time/programming) but it doesn't erase the fact that unless Sweden changes their tax laws or Dominions 3 sells millions of units that you can't compare it to Civ4 realistically.

I think they could be realistically compared in the "how much enjoyment do I get out of one vs. the other" department.

[Zen]

It sure could. Then do it by units sold. More people (whatever their tastes) enjoy certain types of games more.

I sincerely doubt that Dominions sells on a Civilization scale. That doesn't mean it's an inferior game in any way shape or form. But that the tastes of consumers dictate how they purchase games.

Just like how some people for their TBS goodness prefer EU2 or other severely complicated games that I may not enjoy as much. I wouldn't say either way Dominions or EU2 is a better game than the other, only that one game caters to one specific subgenre of TBS and the other caters to what I enjoy in a TBS.

This is more of an industry thing I think instead of a consumer thing. A good read on this would be the Shrapnel Blog about niche games and general vs hard-core stragtegy from their perspective instead of the straight consumer end find it here

[Reverend Zombie]

Zen said:
It sure could. Then do it by units sold. More people (whatever their tastes) enjoy certain types of games more.

A lot of people like crap. That doesn't mean it's better than something fewer people like; it means it's more popular. By that standard TV Guide is "better" than the NY Times.

Lowest common denominator and all that.

[NTJedi]

I agree with Reverend Zombie... CIV_4 is currently more popular because they have a big publisher and larger advertising budget.
Lots of gamers are afraid to purchase something over the internet as well compared with just walking into a store.

[Zen]

NTJedi said:

I agree with Reverend Zombie... CIV_4 is currently more popular because they have a big publisher and larger advertising budget.
Lots of gamers are afraid to purchase something over the internet as well compared with just walking into a store.

I disagree. I think the reason Civ_4 will be popular because of the groundwork that was laid with Civ and Civ2 to produce a good TBS game. That being said, Civ_4 will do good or bomb on it's own merits. It does however have the benefit of being it's own IP and recognized as having the potential of being a very good game.

Dominions has this to it's own extent but not on the same level.

Just as the deal with Stardock and Master of Magic. It's brand recognition, devotion and possible success that allows the risk vs the reward so that Stardock decided to take the leap and try to make it work financially.

[NTJedi]

Zen said:

I disagree. I think the reason Civ_4 will be popular because of the groundwork that was laid with Civ and Civ2 to produce a good TBS game.

Of course Civ and Civ2 were good and help with the sales... but the sales also come from having a big publisher and advertising/marketing budget as well. Dominions does not have this so it will obviously not do as well.

Zen said:
That being said, Civ_4 will do good or bomb on it's own merits. It does however have the benefit of being it's own IP and recognized as having the potential of being a very good game.

I agree... it's possible Civ_4 might be better than Dom_3 or vise versa. Too hard to tell right now.

=============================

The point I was trying to make is that I believe a majority of the CIVILIZATION gamers would find DOMINIONS_2 to be a better game than CIVILIZATION_3. And because DOMINIONS cannot match the advertising/marketing design of CIVILIZATION it will remain this way.

[Zen]

Everyone who likes World of Warcraft are the lowest common denominator? Or just the 90% who like crap which also includes the good 'games'.

Some people also don't like FPS, RTS, or Fantasy or Sci-Fi and it has nothing to do with them liking or not liking crap.

I have friends who I play games with who didn't enjoy Dominions 2, are they suddenly tasteless because they don't enjoy everything Dom2 has to offer?

No. Some of them don't like the pace, some of them can't get past the UI, some of them have issues with graphics, others don't enjoy some of the mechanics of the game. It has nothing to do with how good Dominions 2, but merely their preference.

I think that's why Shrapnel is what it is, the same with Matrix games and Stardock. You have to get lean, mean and approach consumers with a plan to deal with personal preference especially as a working business model.

[Reverend Zombie]

Zen said:
Everyone who likes World of Warcraft are the lowest common denominator? Or just the 90% who like crap which also includes the good 'games'.

You seem to assume that I argue that everything that is popular is crap? Not so. But not everything wildly popular is good, either. See, Revenge of the Sith.

My point is that claiming something is "good" or "better" than something else because it is more popular is a fallacy, which is what you were doing with CiV4 vs. Dom3.

[Beorne]

Nobody mentioned Wesnoth for TBS?