.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Air Assault Task Force- Save $8.00
Bronze- Save $10.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPMBT > TO&Es
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 18th, 2005, 12:25 PM
kevin's Avatar

kevin kevin is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland, OH (Yeah I know, you don\'t need to say anything)
Posts: 58
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
kevin is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Merkava 4 MBT

I just read over the website you forwarded, Plasma. The Merkava 4 does have a crew of 4, and it does have what I'd call a "semi-auto" loader. Each round is protected in it's own blast-proof box. The loader selects the round to be loaded and the boxes are on an electrically driven guide. The loader doesn't actually touch the round.

After looking at the pictures and the cut-away drawing, I've concluded that the Merkava 4 doesn't carry those 8 soldiers internally. I think they mean to say that it has room for 8 soldiers to ride on top. I think this is mentioned because it appears that the Merkava 4 doesn't have ERA, which wold be a first for an Israeli vehicle in a long time.

Sounds to me like an Israeli Defense Industry Marketing executive wrote up that information.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old July 18th, 2005, 12:57 PM
PlasmaKrab's Avatar

PlasmaKrab PlasmaKrab is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 40km from the old frontline
Posts: 859
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
PlasmaKrab is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Merkava 4 MBT

Right, the crew is 4 men, I just ad been reading too fast. Anyway it says additionally...

8 soldiers riding on top looks few enough for a big beast like a Merk4 since even an Abrams can carry a whole inf squad (on the turret only), and I don't think the current Israeli "all-armor" doctrine would call for grunts riding on top of tanks.

Additionally, the "ride on top" hypothesis doesn't fit with the 3 litters that the text accounts for. The Command Group too seems unlikely to be plainly seated on the turret, exposed to any small arms fire.

So this may well be some marketer's brewup, if so I think there has already been heads rolling. I found no confirmation, and I cannot access the IMI website at:

http://www.imi-israel.com/

Edit:

This other article talks only about "enough space to carry a few fully armed infantrymen", which is not much difference from the previous Merkavas IIRC, although maybe now the infantrymen's space is more "official" so to speak.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 18th, 2005, 01:06 PM
PlasmaKrab's Avatar

PlasmaKrab PlasmaKrab is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 40km from the old frontline
Posts: 859
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
PlasmaKrab is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Merkava 4 MBT

BTW, since I know there was some misunderstanding in here about the Merkava variants designations.

For those interested better look here for the translations.
"BAZ" seems to be a convenient acronymous commercial designation while "Dor Dalet" stands roughly for "uparmored".
Much more precision on the link above.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 18th, 2005, 01:17 PM
Listy's Avatar

Listy Listy is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 358
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Listy is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Merkava 4 MBT

well here's something intresting, all the Mekarva's in the game can carry 10 blokes.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 18th, 2005, 02:11 PM
JaM's Avatar

JaM JaM is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 263
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
JaM is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Merkava 4 MBT

1.Merkavas were never fitted with ERA armor. They had spaced plates, Mk3 has passive modular armor.
2.BAZ is acronym for Merkava Mk3 with improved Fire control.
3.Dor Dalet is uparmored Merkava Mk3 Baz
4.Merkava Mk4 can carry 4-6 men inside. They never really want carry infantry outside. It is suicide. every roud that hits a tank can kill all of them.
5.Merkavas needs their own class in game.Only front hull penetration could immobilize them (not rear hull), they carry troops inside, not outside, so they are allways under armor protection and will not take casaulties if tank is hit.(Gun APC class is not good due to upgrade problems, you will never be able to upgrade Merkava to other AFV, olny to APC and similar...)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 18th, 2005, 07:07 PM
loktarr's Avatar

loktarr loktarr is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 152
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
loktarr is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Merkava 4 MBT

Quote:
Only front hull penetration could immobilize them (not rear hull)
What?
I don't understand that at all...

Made some research: Merkava is really heavy: 65T with a 1500Hp
(note that the abraham has also a 1500Hp with 70T, and cannot carry any men) and Merkava size it not so big, so two solutions:
- He cannot have so many people inside,
- He has not a good armor...
In SPMBT, his turret armor is bad: 80 I think but his hull armor is of 70 quite good...

I have made some experiment in order to see what his the best MBT in SPMBT:resultuts were very surprising, I'll repport on that tomorrow (+1 time line)
__________________
"On 17 January, I started with 39 tanks. After 38 days of aerial attacks, I had 32, but in less than 20 minutes with the M1A1,1 had zero." an Iraqi
battalion commander, after being captured by the 2nd Armored Cav Regiment, speeking to Col Don Holder.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 19th, 2005, 01:42 AM
JaM's Avatar

JaM JaM is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 263
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
JaM is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Merkava 4 MBT

Abrams has 70 imperial tons.63 metric tons.
Merkava Mk3 and Mk4 has 65 metric tons, 72 imperial tons.
Merkavas are much better protected than Abramses.

Merkava has engine in front hull compartment, so only front hull penetrations could immobilize it.Engine also adds to protection of the crew.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 19th, 2005, 04:16 AM
Backis's Avatar

Backis Backis is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 72
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Backis is on a distinguished road
Default Re: The Merkava 4 MBT

Quote:
JaM said:
Merkavas are much better protected than Abramses
Saying that the Merk can "only be immobilized by hits to the front" is about as correct a statement that "Leopard 2 can only be immobilized by hits to the rear", ie not at all.

That the Merk 4 should have significantly better protection in all aspects is rather speculation, and I consider "much" better being very unlikely. It also is a to general a statement. Better protected under what circumstances and against what threats?

My guess is that compared to the M1A2 Abrams the Merk 4 has better all aspect protection against man-portable weapons (enhanced survivability during FIBUA) while being slightly inferior frontally (pretty much as depicted in the game actually).

Although a lot of the evaluation hangs on how large the internal volume of the Merk 4 is, space to carry 8 dudes with tactical gear hints that it has a lot of volume to cover, thus perhaps being forced to overall spread that extra armour mass a bit thin.

As stated the Merk can carry infantry internally, but do not have space to do so unless stowage is reduced. Turning it into an 8-guy apc would most likely leave you with only the ammunition carried in the autolader and coax-bin but no reloads. The capability is intended rather for "special applications", and not a "standard" capability always available.


@ Loktarr

Abrams, not Abrahams.

Note that there is as JaM states a substantial difference between Imperial and Metric tons. The Merk 4 is heavier than the M1A2 Abrams just as he wrote.


I actually dislike capability for infantry riding outside modern MBT's at all. F e, the Abrams will tend to roast those sitting on its rear deck with the turbine exhaust when not doing what just about all other MBT do, toss them off by driving really fast over rough terrain or knock them of when swiveling the turret...

MBT's are NOT made to carry troops on the outside like some T-34 with hand-rails for desantniki welded onto it.
__________________
"Med ett schysst järnrör slår man hela världen med häpnad!"
–Socker-Conny
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2025, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.