MP Game, Early Era, Random Nations, Victory Points

[Corwin]

Here is my respose to the recent letter from my noble Helheim opponent.

Maltrease said:
A fine speach by a noble and powerful empire.

We do not argue that if we conquered the entire Tien Chi empire tomorrow, without losses and with the game situation exactly as it is now that we would likely succeed in bringing our form of peace to this world.

We wish we lived in the reality as described by Tien Chi's silver tongued leader,

You will, in few turns. I was talking about 3-4 turns in the future, as I clearly stated in my letter. Once you bring your raiders and armies. In the mid and late game whoever has the best raiders usually wins. And it is common knowledge that Helhheim has by far the best raiders of all Nations and all Eras. You have both flying and cavalry sacred, both with your W9 bless of course.

Tien Chi has no raiders at all. That alone would make any serious war very difficult for me, unless side without raiders have overwhelming force, which is certainly not the case with my nation.

unfortunately the situation is a tad different.

Oni surrendered their lands to Tien Chi without a fight and instead sent their entire forces against Ulm. This allowed Tien Chi an easy assumption of power all the while seriously weakening ULM (their next target).

Not quite. Me and Yomi were fighting serious war, and he has killed a lot of my sacred troops in several battles. But than Ulm decided to interfere and get a piece of Yomi lands while Yomi was occupied with me. Prior to this both me and Yomi asked Ulm not to interfere in our 1 vs 1 war. (It was Yomi's request BTW, not mine, but I supported it). Ulm disregarded it and attacked Yomi anyway.

So naturally Yomi was more pissed at Ulm, who suddenly attacked him in the back, than he was at me, with whom he was fighting this fair 1 vs 1 war, as he asked me himself.

So when Yomi told me that he had a change of plans and would like to teach Ulm a lesson instead of letting him get his lands while he Yomi was fighting me, of course I didn't object to it - why would I??? Would you said - "No, fight me instead, and let Ulm take your lands?" I don't think so.


So your statement that I get Yomi land without losses or fighting is incorrect - prior to Ulm rude intervention there was all out battles and serious losses on my side. Most of my early game sacred died at this war.

(BTW I am not saying you are telling lies, I am sure you just didn't know it. You can ask Yomi if you like, but I am telling the truth)

Where is Tien Chi's military loss in this conflict? Does their army graph ever dip?

Oh c'mon! There were no military losses yet because there were no battles - you just attacked me this turn with your flying raiders deep in my territory. You have destroyed all uncastled temples that I had in my empire , and you have got some of my best provinces. But that's just a beginning.

You do not even have a border with me yet, so no major battles were possible this turn. You will get border in 1 turn though - don't think I can't see the path your glamour troops are cutting through Ulm territory toward the heart of my empire.

This turn I raided a few of their lands, how many provinces of ULM did he conquer (Again without significant loss, as the majority of Ulmish troops died to Oni's suicide).

Again, not entirely correct - Ulm has suffered no losses with me so far. I didn't fight his troops yet - they all retreated to his castle and to his 3 big armies. The only military losses so far in this war were on my side where his PD beat me back (it was stronger than I expected). But that's nothing.

Check the oracles graphs! If we had not intervened Ulm wouldn't have lasted more then a few months in its weakened state.

And how many turns Vanheim will last against *your* empire? At least Ulm still has large army to protect his territory. Vanheim has almost no army. Frankly I wouldn't really use this argument if I would be you.

Even with our aid it will be a very tough battle vs. a huge empire with a MASSIVE gem income, varied magical mages and a HUGE income.

Ha! Have you seen the graphs lately? Your income is actually HIGHER than mine now. Which makes it what- "SUPER-HUGE"? Your gem income will also be higher than mine soon, since you'll continue your raids, and you will certainly do it on much larger scale that this first turn.

Most importantly - without research my gem income and mages are useless, as you well know. And my research sucks, and will continue to suck for the rest of the game, unfortunately. I made a mistake with scales by taking drain with Tien Chi. <sigh> ;(

How fast do you think Tien Chi's research is going to be once all those site searching mages start hitting the books?

Wrong again. They already did last turn. I only has 3 low level mages searching. What you see on the graphs is the best research ALL my mages can do.

Thinking late game: Do you want to fight against some W9 blessed Helherdings? OR Warriors of the Five elements with a W9 F9 bless, that is with 50% immunity to all elements.

Now you are definitely kidding. I will trade you 4 of my W5E for each of your heldrings, and you would be fool to accept such deal. W5E are VERY fragile. You don't need magic to kill them - a group indep archer will destroy them all without breaking a sweat. They die in melee 10 times more easy than herdlings, since they have much lower defense, lower protection, do not have shields, and do not have glamour. Finally they are neither stealthy not flying, so they can't raid. (which is huge factor)


Trying to convince people that W5E are more scary than heldrots is not going to fly for anybody familiar with Helheim. Helheim sacred are the best by far, to the point of being considered overpowered. While W5E are quite good with double bless, they are not uber by any means, and they die easely. Plus I am not sure why you keep calling them them magically immune - 50% resistance is not immunity. As I said – I would gladly trade my w5E for your heldrots at proportion 5:1, and I am not extravagating.




Anyway, the bottom line is I never said "I am suffering the terrible losses, look at me!". But I am well familiar with Helheim and with the current situation in our game to see what will happen in the next few turns.

What I said is " There is no possible way I can fight number one nation (Helheim) with his ally and prevent them from overrunning my Empire. So they are going to win this war and get my land as well as land of Vanheim. And once you add Tien Chi and Vanheim territory to your own, you will win the game. You have admitted it yourself in your post.

And we both know that it will happen, if this war will continue and other nations will not interfere.

Geya, Lord of Tien Chi

[Maltrease]

My bottom line is "take a look at the graphs" and come to your own conclusions before jumping to the aid of one of us "superpowers".

Megablog, weren't you talking about "fun under the waters" a while back? What happended to those plans?

[Ighalli]

The nation of Caelum has concluded that Helhiem is by far the most serious threat to the world. I say this because I am next to both of the nations and I have watched a great deal of their expansion. I urge all free nations to take up arms against Helhiem. The rulers of both nations are ostensibly both noble and just, but it is my prediction that Helhiem will overrun the whole of creation while Tien Chi, while powerful, could be contained by one nation. Thus, although I'd have prefered to continue peaceful dealing with my former comrades, I see no real choice in the matter. I am asking for aid from any nation that has an interest in not fighting Helhiem personally. If, however, you have a border with them, then by all means scoop up some of their land for yourself. If you are unable to do so, then by all means send whatever you can spare to Tien Chi or Caelum. We will fight to protect your lands.

My only regret is that I did not act sooner and assist Vanhiem. I hope that they will forgive me.

Remember: all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

[Corwin]

Ighalli said:
The nation of Caelum has concluded that Helhiem is by far the most serious threat to the world. I say this because I am next to both of the nations and I have watched a great deal of their expansion. I urge all free nations to take up arms against Helhiem. The rulers of both nations are ostensibly both noble and just, but it is my prediction that Helhiem will overrun the whole of creation while Tien Chi, while powerful, could be contained by one nation. Thus, although I'd have prefered to continue peaceful dealing with my former comrades, I see no real choice in the matter. I am asking for aid from any nation that has an interest in not fighting Helhiem personally. If, however, you have a border with them, then by all means scoop up some of their land for yourself. If you are unable to do so, then by all means send whatever you can spare to Tien Chi or Caelum. We will fight to protect your lands.

My only regret is that I did not act sooner and assist Vanhiem. I hope that they will forgive me.

Remember: all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

You have described situation very accurately Sky Lord. Indeed, your lands border both of us, and your flying invisible eyes have surely told you a lot about both my and Helheim nations. We are sorry we shot one of them down few moons ago.

Your assessment of my strength and strength of my noble rival is correct. Tien Chi Empire seconds your call to all free nations to take arms against Helheim or, for those who are unable to do so, to support Caelum or my nation in our fight with Helheim.


The Tien Chi Empire welcomes their new ally in this dark hour.

[RamsHead]

Greetings fellow nations! I am the Dai Oni who was the prophet of Yomi.

After I was slain on the field in the last battle with Ulm, I was returned to Hell, my home. I have heard from those who have connections with your world that there seems to be some confusion regarding Yomi, and what it's actions with your realm were. We Dai Oni hold some weight here in Hell, and I was granted a brief leave to quell the uncertainty.

Concerning Yomi's war with T'ien Ch'i, the first battle we had against each other was an accident, and while Yomi lost, we inflicted some nice casualties on there warriors of the five elements. Or I guess I should say that I inflicted some nice casualties, because I was the one swinging the sword. In fact, that was the battle where I got all my afflictions that resulted in me getting retired to spell caster duty, blech! I digress. We knew then and there that our war was inevitable.

Shortly after this first altercation, the official war begun. Yomi knew that they had one chance of holding back the onslaught of T'ien Ch'i troops, who were simply of better quality. Yomi lost the vital battle and withdrew it's troops to a new location where they would regroup. While Yomi was drawing it's forces together into one large army, Ulm attacked the force and lost. Yomi's casualties were minimal whereas Ulm's forces lost heavily. Check the oracle charts if you must.

A letter was immediately sent to Ulm revealing our anger, which existed for two things. One was that he was obviously trying to take advantage of a weakened nation and interfere with a war he had no right to interfere with. Two was that he attacked without declaring war. Such an underhanded move is considered by Yomi as one of the most dishonorable things a nation can do.

With a new enemy, Yomi had to weight it's options. We had already lost the war against T'ien Ch'i. The most we could hope to do against them was to have a protracted fight that wasted their time and wore them down. Yomi decided that fighting a dishonorable opponent would be a much more satisfying experience, and so we made an agreement with T'ien Ch'i. Our nations, who were once enemies, cooperated with each other, so that Yomi could strike fear into the mighty Ulm and have vengeance. While Yomi was getting everything together, Ulm consolidated his forces and withdrew them closer to the heart of his empire. He was clearly shaken by the loses of our previous engagement.

Once Yomi's forces were brought together, we moved out. We managed to take a few provinces with negligible defense. Then there was the battle. It was fantastic! Our horde of Bakemono archers with flaming arrows absolutely massacred, slaughtered, and butchered the Ulmish troops like the cattle they were! They managed to break through our front line, but I held them back just long enough before they turned and fled! It was truly a sight to behold! Again, feel free to consult the charts if you don't believe me.

Now that I have cleared any vagueness regarding that conflict, I can offer my advice. I never met Helheim, but it was pretty easy to see by the charts that they were an extremely formidable nation. Combine the black flagged nation's power with Ulm's, since they have some sort of an alliance, and you have, no doubt, the most intense concentration of power in the world! I defy for anyone to discredit that statement! If one does nothing to stop this powerful duo who are poised to sweep across the land like a flood, then exactly what would it take for you to make any action! If one does nothing before the threat of oblivion, then there is nothing that would motivate you, and you and your people should suffer for your apathy! For those nations who see this situation as the threat that it rightfully is, I say take action now! Delaying efforts when the world in on the precipice of destruction will profit you nothing! Follow the examples of Vanheim, T'ien Ch'i, and Caelum!

For those who fear defeat, fear not! If Yomi can dent the second most powerful nation, then the sky is the limit! Coordinate your forces with your allies and fight with honor and fury! Rain righteous death upon your enemies! But only honest efforts will yield results.

Well, I have done what I wanted to do. Goodbye and good luck.

[Meglobob]

Anyone know why the game is no longer on a 48hr turnaround? 1 player can hold up the entire game now!

[Maltrease]

Probably Graeme got around to the request to delay the game, although the immediete need for that has passed.

I'll be taking my turn very soon (within the hour hopefully)... there would still be another 24 hours on the clock (or close to it), if the timer wasn't removed.

[Jurri]

Maltrease said:
Megablog

Is that like a furblog, only bigger?

[Meglobob]

Jurri said:

Is that like a furblog, only bigger?

Hey you! You are not in this game, get back to Dawnstrike where you belong. Feel free to trash talk me there!

[Tyrant]

Excuse me for sec, i need to light some incence to cover up the stench of Yomis DIPLOMACY FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE. ( spooky ghost noise )

There, much better. Now let me begin with a chronology of the actual events between Yomi and Ulm.



1) Yomi requested a peace pact. No mention of TC was made. I did not reply.

2) Several turns passed

3) TC attemped to recruit me into an alliance against Helhiem. I declined because i have a border pact with Helheim.

4) Yomi began massing armies on our border.

5) TC, not Yomi, asked me to stay out of an alleged war between him and Yomi.

6) I attacked Yomi and failed, slaying a pair of Dai Oni during the battle.

7) Yomi abandoned their capitol and surrendered all of their land to TC without a fight, put their entire force in a pile and suicided against me, slaughtering my forces prodigiously.

It's possible that there are a few widows somewhere in T'ien Chi, but as far i can tell neither Yomi nor TC lost more than a small handful of troops in this so-called war. Yomis' graph went down only because of me, and TC's never did. I had a half dozen scouts on the scene and they never once witnessed a battle between flagged forces. To put it nicely, Ushi Ushi was weak in the knees and his suicide was a sissy move.

As to TC's request that i keep out of their war, it was clearly a ploy. Was it was cover for an attack on me in alliance with Yomi, who was, i repeat, massing his troops on my border and not defending against TC. Or did he just want me to wait till he was done overrunning Yomi before he attacked me. (Sorta like how he wants you out of the way while he overruns me.) Check the map, he had no where else to go.

Having driven Yomi to suicide with whispers of despair, the silver tongued diplomats of T'ien Chi now attempt, with Rovian guile, to divert attention elswhere so they can press the advantage they have gained against my weakened kingdom without interfernece. They wave their hands, dance tap, refer vagely to graphs and spin peculiar prophecies about future events as they attempt to focus attention on Helhiem. But their performance omits a key point- they are not fighting Helheim, they are invading Ulm. They do not even share a border with Helheim yet. Indeed, if you succeed against Helheim they never will have.

Yes, Helheim has sent some raiders against TC in order to give me time to recover from my losess against TC's puppet. They have desecrated some temptes and scared off some flocks, but no more than that. We are greatful for the help, but these raids will not decide the war, my army's fate will.

Lord of Caelum, I appeal to you to reconsider your alliance with T'ien Chi.

Both Helheim and TC casually dismiss the idea that a fight between them over my territory will bog them both down, but you know what, that's exactly would happen. I ask you to let it happen. Let the heavily blessed TC Warriors, Demons of Heavenly Waters, and Pegasus riders fight with the heavily blessed Valkyries. I have no idea how powerful your forces are, but unless they are darn good it seems to me that you are getting the short end of the stick. You fight powerful Helheim while your ally gets to pick off yet another weakened nation and grab the spoils. How does this help you? Sit it out, build up, aviod losses, and let me try to bleed TC. You can always join in later.

For me it'simple, i'm going to defend myself. Unlike Yomi i'll fight for my castles. The Warriors of the Five Elements, with their spiffy blessings and fancy pants, are going to be spending a year digging ditches and complaining to the mess hall cook about beans to eat three meals a day. Like Yomi, we will very likely fall, unlike Yomi, we will fight with honor to the end.