No Kalevala references in Dom3?

[tka]

Endoperez said:
But I still think Earth should be more important. Joukahainen boasting about turning V�in�m�inen and his clothes to metal (Petrification), V�in�m�inen singing him into the bog (similar to Earth Meld), Destruction (V�in�m�inen destroyed Joukahainen's equipment, transforming the bow into a rainbow, sword into a bolt of lightning, arrows into hawks, etc), and Construction in general.
Death would be another strong one, perhaps. Earth/Fire is quite common already.

Very true, but I could also see those fitting nicely into nature category too. A matter of taste I suppose, both would work for me.

capqn said:Those examples sound like they could work in game as mercenaries, rather than nations.

Considering that Kalevala is all about getting wife, I bet that both Ilmarinen and V�in�m�inen would work as mercenaries if you could pay in blood slaves instead.

[Aezeal]

As a complete novice on this I need to say this: it SOUNDS a lot like midgard/vanheim etc nations.. with other heroes...

are you all sure it's worth a mod..

well it's your time.. but couldn't you just make the rest of the warhammer nations first? (this is of course totally not influenced by any personal desires I have )

[Burnsaber]

I kinda came up with a idea how Sampo could be implememnted. It's pretty crucial part of the story.

Copystat something unique and make it a construction national summon. You can't make it give any money, but what about *huge* supply bonus and gem production (like lots of fire gems or one of each gem type). It would most likely be a earth/fire national summon, which would be outside your nationals. You would have to depend on your pretneder or if you get lucky, the hero Ilmarinen to forge it.

[atul]

I'd think nature would be quite important, if not for the heroes, but to recruitable mages. After all, in the rural settings, everyone knew some "spells". At least in Finnish tradition the women knew healing and farming spells (a bit like the NE witch) whereas men practised magic related to hunting (and possibly hurting, N...B?). During the time of witch hunts, most convicted witches in eastern Finland were male, after all they were practicioners of the black magic. Women's magic was mostly beneficial, so why hunt 'em?

(Of course, as Swedes brought their civil ways to western Finland they also brought the idea that women were the bad witches, and as such most convictions for witchcraft were given to women in west.)

I'd also base the nation on historic light infantry, but with summons of its own. And heroes based on stories. Maybe a mix of 'heims and EA Ulm?

[Endoperez]

What era should the nation be in? Early is a bit crowded already, and the bows used are often shown as crossbows. If we put the nation at Middle, we could make the nation independent splinter of what used to be under Helheim's rule. Heim basic infantry, stealthy infantry based on LA Ulm rangers, couple of special units (like Hakkapeliitta cavalry). I'm not sure what the race's ability should be like. Increased hp and strength as Ulm, lowered encumberance as Machaka, increased magic res as Eriu, or increased morale on all troops, or something else altogether...

There's also the possibility of making the Kalevala nation precede LA Atlantis. Forbidden Coast, the Coast of Ice and Bones... I'm sure the Sami have some stories about underwater race, and Finnish mythology is full of spirits of the rivers, rapids and lakes. Some kind of N�kki or Staalo as an assassination spell would also work very well with this theme. See *1 below.


What about the magic? All of Nature/Death, Water/Earth/Death and Earth/Nature would fit in my opinion, but I'm not really that familiar with the old stories. We could use 3 to 4 mages, most recruitable everywhere. A female witch (NE), a male wiseman with holy 1 with Nature 1 and perhaps a random, a spellsinger with more magic and perhaps holy 1 or 2... Perhaps a sami-inspired shaman as a more powerful nature-caster, and the spellsingers with mixed paths. National spellsongs would be a must. Perhaps Sermon of Courage and Fanaticism as spellsongs? The latter would take a gem.

Gnomes (354; a bit like dwarves with E2N2, glamour and stealth) would fit both the Finnish tradition of gnomes guarding homes, saunas, places etc, AND work as a continuation of the Helheim theme (gnomes instead of svartalfar). That'd make for a nice summon.


There are many stories about water spirits teaching you if you could trick them to do it without killing you. Any ideas about implementing that?



http://www.pakanaverkko.fi/vox/staalo.shtml

Lihatontta on maagisesti rakennettu staalon ilmentym�. Se on tunnettu my�s Suomen lapissa hahmona, jonka noita nostatti maasta tuhoavaa tarkoitusta varten. Kertomusperinteest� riippuen lihatontta oli vainaja, el�v� ruumis, savesta tai kankaasta luotu olento. N�m� tuovat mieleen et�isesti sek� zombimaiset palvelijat ett� juutalaisesta tarustosta per�isin olevan Golemin.

Juha Pentik�isen Saamelaiset-kirjassa karasjokinen mies kuvaa lihatontan rakentamista 1920 luvulla:

”Uskoivat ennen, ett� jos mie suutun jollekin, niin mie teen savesta niin kuin ihmisen ja leikkaan sormeen haavan, niin ett� veri tulee ja tiputan sit� verta sen savikuvan p��lle. Ja niin tekev�t noituudella siihen hengen.”

Aikalaisten kertomuksissa k�y ilmi, ett� lihatontta oli n�kym�t�n. Sen pystyi havaitsemaan ainoastaan uhri, jonka kimppuun se oli l�hetetty. Lihatontan maaginen luominen ei ollut riskit�nt�. Uskottiin, ett� ellei olento l�yt�nyt vuoden sis�ll� uhriaan – palasi se surmaamaan tekij�ns�. Noita panosti henkil�kohtaisen kostajan luomiseen paljon, sill� toisten uskomusten mukaan staaloon t�ytyi vuodattaa puolet noidan omasta hengest�, jotta se her�isi eloon. T�m� tarkoitti k�yt�nn�ss� sit�, ett� jos lihatontta sai surmansa, niin samalla kuoli sen tekij�kin.

Lihatontta (Flesh gnome) is a magically constructed staalo a witch created to destroy. Depending on the story, it was made from a living or dead body, clay or cloth. In Juha Pentik�inen's book, a man he interviewed described the construction of lihatontta:
"Used to believe that if I'm mad at someone, then I make a likeness of human in clay and cut my finger, so that blood comes and drop it to the clay. And the witchcraft makes in it a spirit."
Only the victim could see the creature, and it would return to kill it's sender if it couldn't find the victim in one year's time.

[atul]

If I remember correctly, the initial advantage of swedish army in the 30 year war was its conscripted army when compared to other countries mercenaries. Conscripted, such as Hakkapeliittas, who were brought in as per "each house shall provide a man and a horse" rule. So, cheap and plentiful. But my history isn't that good.

Too bad hordes of poor quality fighters don't work in Dominions...

[Endoperez]

About hakkapeliitta:

I'd like to give them fay horses of the vanir, and either light lance or lance to benefit from the high ap (26). This way, the initial charge causes tremendous damage, just like the pistol charge did for the hakkapeliitta. At the moment, I'm thinking of
- elite stats (11 hp/str/att, 12 def +3 mounted, 14 mor), move 3/26 of vanir
- broadsword/lance/hoof for att 11/12/11
- reinf. leather cap, scale cuirass, shield for def 14, 18 with parry; and prot 10/8 for body/head
- gcost 40, res cost 15, forest survival
In my tests, this does respectively well.

About the basic infantry:
What if the infantry had weapon, shield AND a short bow? Similar to LA Man's Tower Guards and their crossbows, or EA Ulm warrior maidens. They won't have tower guards' heavy armor, so they'll probably be way inferior... but they'll be stealthy, giving the nation very good stealthy force. stealthy med infantry with shield, AND affordable archers - that's very good.

[Aezeal]

IMHO for that armour etc the resource cost should be higher, probably gold a bit too.

The infantry sounds nice.. elite stealth teams.. but be carefull not to overpower/underprice them.. a unit that can do a lot should cost a lot too.. and can only do one of the things you've paid for at the same time. Versatility is nice but some pplz have said "you can't use this and this at the same time so the price shouldn't be very high.. it's not true IMHO versatility should come with a price --> thus an army should not have to much versatile units else they will all be relatively expensive

--> just my take on things, you are an experience modder so I'm probably just saying things you know anyway