Ascendant - Game On!

[Zenzei]

Well, it seems Sauromatia's greed has no end as this turn they attacked Caelum with an army of 200+ troops/commanders. Wisdom of this new assault will be evaluated soon when people of the sky flock together to face the abomination that is Sauromatia.

To Tien Chi: Now would be the time for your people to act against Sauro as you still have possible allies left to fight alongside with. If you side with Caelum, together we would be roughly equal to Sauro in every aspect except that Tien has better(and I have worse) research than Sauro. So our chances to end Frannabelle's rampage would be pretty good. If Tien stays neutral and worst case scenario happens(Caelum falls), the people of Spring & Autumn will be completely surrounded by foul Sauromatians and at that point the extermination of your nation is rather easy. If you side with Sauro, you may get some territory from Caelum but ultimately this option only leads to Tien Chi getting surrounded by Sauro as mentioned above and Caelum will make sure to inflict maximum possible damage against Tien before going down.

[Renojustin]

We offered you the Pax Sauromatia. Those who accepted our peace have prospered, while those who have scorned our offer have suffered.

You made your bed, Caelum... now your lands and your women are ours!

[Zenzei]

Ha! Pax Sauromatia is the most worthless piece of agreement* ever offered to us as it basically read: let's have 12 turns of "peace" so Sauromatia is safe from possible war acts from Caelum and as soon as our borders touch or that 12 turns has passed Sauro will attack anyway.

But enough of that, let's fight you and I. The eagle kings are awaiting the Sauromatian horde.

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*In general I consider making pacts with significantly stronger nations extremely bad strategy as there's absolutely no benefit in them for the weaker nation.

[Renojustin]

You can't actually believe there is no benefit to being friendly with a more powerful nation. That's kind of a disingenuous thing to say, really. The reasons are far too numerous and obvious to list, but here's one big one off the top of my head - Having a chance to grow in military and magic to the point that you can defend yourself against anyone, without getting summarily invaded and destroyed.

There's a great equalizer for large armies and nations, and they are called Battlefield Enchantments. I offered the nations of the world the chance to first grow, THEN fight on equal footing with anyone and everyone, just don't jump on the jealousy bandwagon and see to your own nation first, I said. But R'lyeh, Abysia, and Lanka (Atlantis took a potshot) had to be bullies -- and see where it got them! It's just been a pure slaughter since Kailasa fought like the dickens. Some of that had to do with skill levels and scripting, but some of it was just plain not having the resources to compete because they didn't take the easiest ones available to them when they could.

If those nations had instead looked to their more natural neighbors, they'd have conquered them by now, or just turtled up and spent their gold more wisely instead of throwing it away like so much dandelion fluff in the wind against me. They would be more than ready for the coming late game. Like C'tis, like T'ien Ch'i, like Helheim.

Instead, what happened is that they saw someone a little bit faster than them in the early game and panicked, and all have made some very unwise moves, diplomatically and militarily, and in all likelihood, won't be around for much longer in this totally fantastic and dynamic game, which is unfortunate.

Anyway, we'll soon see how well you've put your nation together... but don't tell me that you couldn't have used another 6 or 7 turns, because I don't believe that you are currently prepared for what I have coming for you!

In 6 turns you could have invaded 20+ provinces with 6 eagle kings. In 6 turns, you could have researched up to level 6 or 7 in a school of magic. In 6 turns, you could have had 6 more forts. But most of all, you could have had the self satisfaction in the fact that you were right to do it; now because of these nations' greed and pride, we gain power more rapidly - we have no deal with you, or Lanka, or Abysia, or R'lyeh holding us back. And even if all four of you were the same nation, you could not hope to defeat Sauromatia now with the heavy and in some cases massive setbacks we have dealt out over the last several turns.

Still Sauromatia is open to diplomatic inquiries and niceties, no matter our successes on the battlefield. It's almost as if I didn't even get to play that aspect of the game, because I was too busy counterinvading Sauromatia's ill-advised aggressors!

See you all in Ascendant.

Edit: Also, I wanted to openly acknowledge and admire Kailasa and Ulm for always coming in and playing their turns still. I don't think either one of them has missed even one turn yet. That's pride. I think either one of you could easily be where Sauromatia is now if you'd had the same start.

[Darkwind]

Renojustin said:Some of that had to do with skill levels and scripting, but some of it was just plain not having the resources to compete because they didn't take the easiest ones available to them when they could.

That'd be me. I couldn't figure out how to deal with your raids! But now I do.

Edit: Apparently I don't. You are a formidable opponent.

[Renojustin]

It's ok, Caelum had a really good turn and will put up some fight, apparently; we just took our first significant losses actually!

Edit: Actually now that I've watched it again to see exactly what went wrong, it appears that the battle was majorly buggy.

8 communion slaves, 2 masters... but none recieved any bonuses, so the spells that I needed cast, weren't. All Communions were cast, but... nothing happened.


I'm not really sure what happened here.

[Darkwind]

Renojustin said:
It's ok, Caelum had a really good turn and will put up some fight, apparently; we just took our first significant losses actually!

You would've taken some earlier if you weren't such a coward and had deigned the Aboleths powerful enough to fight. If you win, in the end, there'll be a giant Sauromatian empire covering all of Ascendant . . . but that one little province with Giboleths.

[Wrana]

You can't actually believe there is no benefit to being friendly with a more powerful nation. That's kind of a disingenuous thing to say, really. The reasons are far too numerous and obvious to list

Yes, that's what Hitler said to his neighbors too... I don't say that it wasn't wise for him to say so - it just wasn't wise for Poland, e.g., to listen.

but don't tell me that you couldn't have used another 6 or 7 turns, because I don't believe that you are currently prepared for what I have coming for you!

Yes, & you would be more ready by the time too. And as I've already said, you have more resources to spend on research, forging, etc. at the same time. So much for equalizers..

we have no deal with you, or Lanka, or Abysia, or R'lyeh holding us back

There was a topic about deal with Abysia some time ago.. In any case, as Claire have quite correctly put out, you have enough power to dictate how any deal is should be read by now. And you Kailasa had tried to make a deal with you - everybody can see how much it availed them...

They would be more than ready for the coming late game. Like C'tis, like T'ien Ch'i, like Helheim.

Actually, as I already pointed out, Tien Chi used quite the opposite approach - he didn't wait until I would explore conquered lands & grow stronger, but invaded me in time to be successful with it! C'tis also fought 2 opponents at once... As for Helheim I don't know his situation but suspect that he is not ready for late game. In any case this wouldn't matter if you conquer enough victory points soon enough - which is quite possible!
Also I can repeat that I would be dead by now if I didn't invade Fomors from the beginning, & Kailasa used precisely the approach you recommend by making peace with Caelum to grow by conquering independents... Now Caelum can at least try to fight back & Kailasa is no more.
Another thing you conveniently forget is that Tien Chi & C'tis both made sure that they have some allies & this possibly added to their success.. One mistake I feel Abysia made is that they didn't made negotiations for alliance against you secret (via PM, for example) & didn't wait finishing of these negotiations before attacking you. On the other hand, it could be too late by that time...

openly acknowledge and admire Kailasa and Ulm

You are wrong once more - actually I missed at least 2 turns - 1 at the beginning & another one about 5 turns back... I don't think that it was my main mistake - I should probably take time to scout my eastern neighbors & make some preliminary negotiations from the start, for example, so it doesn't matter. And pride is rightly considered a sin - it may be your downfall here, for example...

[kasnavada]

Claire says the downfall of sauromantia is pride. Pride that forced him to tell everyone about his victories, pride that forced him to answer, pride that made him lose the diplomatic fight. Being too proud is called arrogance. It seems that every single of Sauromantia's neighbour turned against him !

Claire will probably not survive, this but that is a victory that Claire is proud of. And one more thing. If Claire was in Sauromantia's place, Claire wouldn't have gotten conceited enough to go attack beyond someone's border even before finishing a foe.

Hear the battle cries of Abyssia ! For whether they last or not, they will go out with in a flash of fire so bright that everyone will remember them forever !

All shall burn ! All shall burn ! All shall burn !

[Renojustin]

Caelum have you seen the replay? Can you understand it?

If nobody can say what's going on in it, I will try to have some important people have a look at it. It's had enough of an impact (I'd probably have won that fight if my spells had gone off) that, well, if it's a big enough bug it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for a resubmission of the turn, despite some pretty good victories elsewhere for me, and actually I was kind of excited for you at first, too.