Erk, Culture shock

[Nightblade]

Listy said:
I got to say I'm beginning to think that Infantry are too weak.

In some of my battles, i could swear some cheap rebel infantry were not made of flesh.
I always remember that random battle in which i had an AH64 gunning with its chaingun and firing his hydras 70, turns after turns on an enemy squad on a forest border without them getting any casualties.

At least they were pinned down, but it was impressive to see them taking that much punishment without any kind of loss.

As they're far to slow for manoeuvre in terrain now, and far to easy to beat up. I've just gone through a dug infantry position in woods with a column of unsupported T-62's. My opponent did exactly the same only with T-64's in a previous game.

It just seems that before hand if you tried to charge Ala Israel Yom Kipour war style in woods with armour you should lose the an awful lot. So far I've lost about a platoon of tanks for shoving a dug in US rifle platoon out of its position.

It all seems far to easy.

In the preferences you can change the infantry thoughness and the tanks thoughness, for both side or only 1 if you want.
It really makes a difference.

Now something you need to remember is that while a tank may be able to destroy in few time lot of infantry, if you lose that tank in one of the firefights with the troops, in the end of the game, you could have lost the battle.

In term of points, losing a tank can cost you so much that you may not be able to get more than a draw.

That's why i do not "charge" with my tanks in battle anymore without having the infantry exploring the terrain first, as in the various random battles i setup, i learnt how much losing the heavyweights due to some unseen AT launcher or ATGM can prevent me to obtain what i think often to be at least a marginal victory.

[Listy]

Nightblade said:
That's why i do not "charge" with my tanks in battle anymore without having the infantry exploring the terrain first, as in the various random battles i setup, i learnt how much losing the heavyweights due to some unseen AT launcher or ATGM can prevent me to obtain what i think often to be at least a marginal victory.

I'm curious, how do you move them through terrain at anything close to a useful speed? Surely advancing at one hex a turn means your attack grinds along and is a sitting duck for arty, and runs the risk of timing out?

[Marek_Tucan]

Hard to describe, but if used properly, foot infantry can advance quite swiftly - best thing would be playing few "infantry only" PBEM - say infantry has to be foot, only limited transpoort and armored assets...

[Wdll]

Just use mechanised infantry. With some cheap APCs that are barely more expensive than trucks.

[Marek_Tucan]

It is much more fun with trucks and not for all your infantry force You have to plan more when, how and where to use them, where to deploy reserves, how to evade even light artillery and mortars...

[Wdll]

It's not the low armor (none) that troubles me so much with trucks, as the extremely poor mobility in bad terrain.

[Marek_Tucan]

The more you are forced into really employing foot maneuvers with your grunts. Plus they may shoot only with what they carry along, no MG from battle taxi to support them.

[Nightblade]

Listy said:
I'm curious, how do you move them through terrain at anything close to a useful speed? Surely advancing at one hex a turn means your attack grinds along and is a sitting duck for arty, and runs the risk of timing out?

Artillery is a big problem for every kind of strategy one can plan, as you never know if the opposite side will target what they can spot or will make "random" arty missions and sometime devastate well hidden moving troops he never ever saw (on a PBEM a friend nearly killed 2 of my infantry squads and suppressed some more like this, without even knowing it ).

So as i hide my tanks in the beginning while having my infantry going forward (either on foot or on apc/ifv/truck), if the opposite side will plan arty missions on what he is spotting, it will rain on the infantry.

If i notice the artillery landing near my tanks, it is at 99% of of those random missions based on luck/wishfull guesses, and there i will move my tanks, as luck is a factor that did not always favored me before in SP:MBT

Timing out and moving pace is not a real problem for me :
-I don't play scenario based on few turn and huge maps that would force me to basically rush as quick as possible to the objectives and lose tanks without being able to prevent it (and so lose the win victory points conditions).
Playing on pure luck (rushing on the objective hoping the enemy will miss or the shell does not penetrate) is way too random for me.

-For the map size i usually play , there is no problem for slow advancing tanks to reach the objectives before the end of the game.

Basically, all really depends on how the enemy artillery missions will be planned.

But the more i play, the more i use tanks as firing support and not as offensive spearheads, because the loss of points when one tank is destroyed is really too much a penalty on your final score when you play a relative small battle (as it is what i do often in SP:MBT), often preventing you to get better than a draw despite you know the enemy has been beaten.

[PanzerBob]

I must say infantry moving on the modern battle space takes far thought and a lot more luck than in WW2 era battles. Smoke and light conditions, which were the infanteers friend, now make some moves suidical in some cases. Forces which are well matched in the latest vision and sighting equipment seem to mostly end up slaughtering each other. Especially when the opponents have human commanders. PBEM Campaigns may need a surrender or withdrawal feature to stop this, as a real commander would withdraw at more realistic combat losses than 80 plus percent. Sorry another issue for another place. However, don't get me wrong I'm still having a blast!!!

[Marek_Tucan]

You cannot withdhraw via map edge? Anyway, if your forces are in such a disarray you are unable to pull out a fighting withdhrawal to buy time for retreat, it is time for white flag anyway